1.) With all of these "Where legends are made [or born]" NBA Finals commercials, where would you say that Willis Reed and David Robinson rank with big men?

2.) Does this loss to the Pistons taint Shaq's legacy in any way and how much? He's one of the Top 5 Centers of all time. There's no argument there IMO, but does this remove him from that list?

I can't really anser Question #1, as all I know of Reed is what I've read and seen on ESPN Classic and what I do know is that those Knicks team were very '90's Bulls/'05 Spurs "full team arsenal" type of team where anyone could step up.

In regards to Question #2, I really hope that it's well recorded that Shaq's had clotting in his knee and thigh all season and it really kicked in after a full season+one and a half playoff series coming into this Pistons series.

IMO, the Heat should've played this series similar to the '99 Spurs with Mourning playing more minutes off the bench. Haslem couldn't guard Rasheed. Would Mourning have been that much worse? And Haslem was owned on the offensive side of the ball with all of those minutes. This is all "monday morning quarterbacking," but I was really shocked that Mourning didn't get much time on the floor to help Shaq on the inside.

Shaq is still Shaq and with a couple of Steve Kerr/Robert Horry types of players coming off of the bench, they can become a dynasty and Shaq will leave like Jordan- on top as [arguably] the best Center of all time.

I don't wanna hear "He had Penny, Kobe, and D-Wade." Jordan had Pippen who took the Bulls one game (and a bullshit Game 7 foul) away from the NBA Finals in a year when no one could stop the Rockets, but a Bulls team with Jordan and that would've gone 6, if not 7, games.

Where is Penny now? What did the Lakers do without Shaq and what did they do before him?

Shaq and Willis Reed aren't even in the same category.

To determine how they rank imagine you are the GM of a brand new team and could pick any center of any era to play for you.

Wilt Chamberlain
Shaq
Tim Duncan
Bill Russell
Hakeem Olajuwon
Kareem Abdul Jabbar

then there are the - Guys that are solid numbers wise but just can't take over a game

Patrick Ewing
Willis Reed
Bill Walton
Robert Parish
Artis Gilmore
Moses Malone



I would put Robinson in a grey area between the 2 groups, pre Duncan and Post Duncan.

I hope you didn't think that I was suggesting that Reed is in the same ballpark in any way. Do you think that people are gonna lower Shaq's legendary status because of this year and last year? I'm definitely not saying that he's at fault. The Heat was battered and have a weak bench.

Ewing's gotta be in that same gray area group, don't you think, Steve? His Knicks were 2 points away (1 John Starks T Foul) from winning a championship. They did take that Rockets team to 7 games and almost won in Houston. Walton, Gilmore, Parish, and Malone aren't near Ewing and Robinson. Especially Walton and Parish.

give me a choice of their best 5 years and I take in order

Chamberlain
Olajuwon
Russell
Shaq
Jabbar
Duncan
Robinson (remember I said 5 year window)
Moses Malone
Artis Gilmore

then

Ewing/Reed/Walton

with Parrish bringing up the rear

and I won't even comment on guys like Mikan or Nate Thurmond

if it was a 3 year window I'd put Ralph Sampson and brad daugherty in the top 5

as a side note did anyone know that Dennis Johnson was on the all defensive team 9 years in a row??????

Patrick Ewing

PPG 21
FG% .504
RPG 9.8
APG 1.9
BPG 2.44
SPG .96


compare to Olajuwon

PPG 21.8
FG% .512
RPG 11.10
APG 2.5
BPG 3.09
SPG 1.75

I used a contemporary so it can be as accurate as possible

on the whole they look similar but every stat sticks out as why Olajuwon will go down as a top 5 center and Ewing will not, he is just a little better in every single category

Moses Malone

PPG 20.6
FG% .491
RPG 12.2
APG 1.4
BPG 1.3
SPG .80

Moses has lesser stats, except rebounds, but if you ever watch the old film and listen to the interviews you will hear every teammate say how their game plan was to get the ball to Moses for the first 15 seconds, if they couldn't than they would just play improv offense. He was the whole team.

Ewing always had a team around him, he really wasn't even the go to guy, starks took many of the clutch shots because ewing had trouble with double teams, both scoring and passing out of them. He had oakley on the other post and starks, houston, and johnson on the wings not a shabby team at all.

if you take Moses Malones best 5 year span you get 15+ rebounds per game and 25+ points a game

Ewings best 5 year span will get you 25 PPG and 11+ rebounds a game


Don't get me wrong Ewing could play! But to me he is just out of that dominant player of his time category. He had a tremendous career, stress career, which makes him as great in some people's minds. He is like the Hank Aaron of basketball just real steady for many years.

Robert parish's best 5 will get you 19 and 10 a game

Bill Walton will get you 17+ and 13+ and 4+ assists a game

Gilmore 22 and 15 and was a better passer than Ewing and will get you close to 300 blocks a year

The Admiral 25 and 11 and 300 blocks a year

so to say that he is so much better than the others is quite untrue, Parish being the low water mark of the group shows that Ewing is very comparable to the others in their prime


Ewing = Great offensive post player, good rebounding and lane clogging skills, below average passer

You could say this about so many players that you could fill a book. Like I said Ewings legacy is he passed the test of time and was consistent for years

I wouldn't put Duncan in my Top 5. You really do earn your legacies in basketball in May and June and I think if he wins this year, I take Hakeem out and throw him in. Ginobili is gonna have 24 PPG, 7APG, and he could slow down Billups. They need to throw Duncan on Rasheed, but that concedes the play on the boards to B. Wallace. Big problem.

If Duncan can have 25 PPG, 9 RPG, with some big blocks in this series when he's REALLY tested in the Finals, he's a top 5 center, IMO.

I disagree that a basketball legacy is made in the playoffs, football yes, basketball no.

Basketball legacies are made by how much better you are than your peers and did you redefine the game.

look no further than chamberlain for this. Jordan is still Jordan with or without the rings. Bird was always upstaged by the Lake Show but he still goes down in the same breath with Magic.

Dominique, Adrian Dantley, Ewing, Drexler, etc. there legacy would be the same with 1 or 2 rings on their fingers. Look at Mchale and Parish and Dennis Johnson and they had incredible playoff perfermances. or on the flip side James worthy, byron scott, the reason their legacy is not of Wilkins, Dantley, Drexler is because they were not head and shoulders better than their peers and did not redefine the game, they simply had solid careers on incredible teams.

Are you kidding me, Steve? Why was Reggie Miller in the spotlight? It wasn't for 18 PPG in the regular season- it was 4th quarter performances at Madison Square Garden and United Center in the playoffs. Robert Parish takes a long time to hit the Hall of Fame, if not for '86. Larry Bird would be talked about much more if he had a couple more rings and his performances were among the best ever.

You put Hakeem and Ewing's numbers right next to each other. What's the difference- the biggest difference? Ewing was a John Starks T foul away from being discussed as a top 5 player. Hakeem wins that series and the next against a very immature Shaq. Hakeem had no low post game and that was Ewing's trademark along with the hi post.

Chamberlain is the Dan Marino of basketball. That's a bad example because those numbers are so monstrous that you can't deny them as top 3-5 of their positions of all time. Give each of them more hardware (or one for Marino) and they're so much more.

Wilkins was the #2 scorer behind Jordan for 5-7 years and he'll always be remembered for being "the best besides Michael Jordan" in the early 90's, not to mention the razzle-dazzle that will be on hightlight reels until the end of time.

On another note, Kevin Willis is STILL in the league. Go away.