(Cross posted from PTP)

10 Left in this 180 man $8 sng.

I'm in the BB with AK and chip leader.

The SB is 2nd in chips and open shoves,

he has passed his SB twice before and his been if anything a little to tight.

Is this a call?


PokerStars Game #67155000640: Tournament #438059011, $7.34+$0.66 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XVI (1500/3000) - 2011/09/07 12:19:36 ET
Table '438059011 17' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 3: DEHATE (4092 in chips)
Seat 4: V1p13 (3267 in chips)
Seat 5: BennyZee (55854 in chips)
Seat 7: stakingacc (62389 in chips)
Seat 8: TeamTrousers (32241 in chips)
DEHATE: posts the ante 300
V1p13: posts the ante 300
BennyZee: posts the ante 300
stakingacc: posts the ante 300
TeamTrousers: posts the ante 300
BennyZee: posts small blind 1500
stakingacc: posts big blind 3000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to stakingacc
TeamTrousers: folds
DEHATE: folds
V1p13: folds
stakingacc said, "ruh roh"
BennyZee: raises 52554 to 55554 and is all-in

Gross spot. What are the payouts? I need to crunch numbers for this one.

Payout is top 18, but 10-18 get paid the same amount, which is around double the buy-in. Payouts will start to increase on the final table with the top 3 being pretty top heavy.

I didn't look at the hand very closely before I posted it from PTP.

Looking at it now, I think I make the call. I have a few reasons why:

- Very unlikely he shoves a hand better than AK... Many players will shove small pocket pairs here (which is bad IMO), but that's still only a small part of his range I think.

- If we win this pot, we take top 3 for sure, minus any bad beats or whatever later on.

- BVB his range is wide, especially shoving his whole stack in.

- Even if we call and lose, we can still fold the SB and possibly outlast one of the other short stacks. So while we may not place as high as we would if we folded, we still can make money.

If I were to fold, it'd be because we have 20% of the total chips in play and I have reason to think he's tight. But I think I make the call here at least 75% of the time.

What does BVB mean??

I think I'm folding on this one.

Making top 3 would be easy since you have a good amount of the chips in play, but that's only if you win the hand. I think you're slightly behind, even if he is shoving wide. You don't get much if you lose now, and that hurts, especially when you're sure to make the final tables (at least one of those two stooges is going to be out soon).

If you fold, you're in great shape. I think you'll easily place in the top 6, you know how to play poker. I think it's worth more that you continue to play over taking a high variance risk.

BvB - means Blind versus Blind.

I agree with this to an extent.

The part I highlighted in bold is somewhat the reason why I think a call might be worthwhile. There are two short stacks to our left that will go through the blinds and blind out (more than likely) even if we call and lose, and fold our SB. That will automatically put us in 8th, and that's not considering that there might be a shortstack or two on the other table as well.

If it wasn't for those two players, I'd agree nearly 100% and could find a fold more often than not, allowing my edge to make up for the thin spots I pass on like this. And it would be based more on reads, history, stats, etc than anything else.

Side Note: After running the hand in Stove, I'm still liking a call somewhat. I think he's shoving at least 30-35% here (it might be narrower if you discount premium hands he wants value for, but that improves our equity), which gives us about 63% equity in the hand, possibly more. That's not horrible considering the massive edge we have with those chips if we win. Just food for thought, I guess.

Originally Posted by KnightofNarg

I think I'm folding on this one.

Making top 3 would be easy since you have a good amount of the chips in play, but that's only if you win the hand. I think you're slightly behind, even if he is shoving wide. You don't get much if you lose now, and that hurts, especially when you're sure to make the final tables (at least one of those two stooges is going to be out soon).

If you fold, you're in great shape. I think you'll easily place in the top 6, you know how to play poker. I think it's worth more that you continue to play over taking a high variance risk.

BvB - means Blind versus Blind.

If you think he's shoving that wide, and he very well may be, I agree with your decision to call. I never got the chance to get good at BvB play

- BVB his range is wide, especially shoving his whole stack in.

We have no information on the villain as far as I've read , right ? He passed his SB twice , how do you make the above assumption ? I guess it would be a hand that he's not comfortable playing/shoving post flop , could be a 55-JJ (maybe even QQ) - maybe suited broadway cards . That's 60-40 at best , I don't like that call with 18BB (less effective BB , but at this stage everybody is short) vs a random tight player .

If he passes his BVB spots , plays tight , I just don't see the sudden switch to pressure the FT-bubble . Your range might be a little off . I'm folding this without HUD stats/ reads .

No information, and this isn't my hand (posted from PTP).

We obviously disagree on ranges. I can see someone shoving their entire stack in with a small pair, maybe 22-99, maybe TT -- but I don't think anyone is someone shoving JJ or QQ here. I do think he's got other hands in his range too, such as Ax, K9+ and possibly even QT/JT. Verses that range (minus the bigger pairs) we're 64%. I think that's reasonable for someone tight in the big blind, and since it's only been a couple rounds that he's let the SB go, it's possible he's even wider. We'll never really know though.

As I mentioned above, a call isn't mandatory. At the same time, you don't play these for 2-2.5hrs to min cash or barely make the final table. You play them to win (I prefer top 3). A 65/35 isn't exactly a coin flip either, especially since you set yourself up to take top 2 if you win this hand here.