Originally Posted by ImNotSpecial

Hi Hi Hi!
Ive actually seen someone fold AA preflop

Ive seen the 6 handed final table
and my friend was 2nd in chip lead with 225K, and he had two all ins infront of him for about 45K each so he snap shipped with KK.
guy to his left with chip lead 250K sat and thought for 12 minutes (no exaguaration)
then kept his cards but said fold.
one turned over AK, other turned over QQ my mate turned over KK and the guy showed he folded AA.
Boom, case K on flop for KK to take the lot.
he said he folded because of the payout structure, and by folding their. he actually went onto winning it for £120K

Some of that could be intuition. His poker brain might have said, "call it! You got AA, best hand preflop" but his intuition said let it go. Sounds new age and funky, but it could have been that little voice inside.

Originally Posted by Aces-o-8s

If you've never folded the best hand then you're calling too much!

Once a long time ago I laid down AA preflop in a 3-table S'nG at about level 4 or 5 and about 15 of 27 players left. Tried to find the HH but it's been like 3 years ago or more but it went something like EP limps 100 and I raise from MP to 400 then CO shoves a medium stack +/- 20BB only to be followed with all-ins from Btn, SB, BB and the limper. That's 5 all-ins vs my pocket AA. Looks real good huh? Except against that many players no pocket pair including aces are favored to win. I folded and the table showed CO had JJ, Btn had AKo, SB (shortstacked at about 9BB) had KQs, BB had JTo and EP limper had 87s. BB won with flopped trips on a board T-T-4-?-?.
How could I fold? Well I knew I wasn't favored to win vs 5 but I also reasoned 4 of those 5 were about to leave the game and while the remaining player would have a huge big stack I figured with 4 players gone I was that much closer to the money. But while I remember the hand I don't remember where I finished in that game!

Here's the odds for each hand from Pokerstove:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 47.089% 46.64% 00.44% 306927 2925.00 { AcAd }
Hand 1: 08.385% 07.83% 00.55% 51544 3630.00 { JdJh }
Hand 2: 04.361% 03.78% 00.58% 24904 3789.50 { AhKs }
Hand 3: 11.140% 10.99% 00.15% 72318 982.50 { KdQd }
Hand 4: 07.655% 07.10% 00.55% 46738 3630.00 { JsTc }
Hand 5: 21.371% 21.35% 00.02% 140502 118.00 { 8c7c }

That's so bad man. You are getting 5 to 1 pot odds so you need to win in at least 16.66% to win chips on the long run. What you do obviously with AA. Those 27 mans are so top heavy so you need to make som chips.

I would only fold AA in a bubble situation of a DON or a sattelite.

Originally Posted by Ipokergood

+1

IMO, anyone who would fold AA preflop shouldn't be playing poker. And as said before, you play to win the game, not min cash by folding the BEST hand preflop.

I'm pretty sure this is a general statement, but there are times when folding AA is correct -- DONs, for example.

Originally Posted by christiane69

That's so bad man. You are getting 5 to 1 pot odds so you need to win in at least 16.66% to win chips on the long run. What you do obviously with AA. Those 27 mans are so top heavy so you need to make som chips.

I would only fold AA in a bubble situation of a DON or a sattelite.

^^ That, all day long. I haven't played too many 27s, but iirc, 45 mans pay 7 -- so 27s must pay 5, right? So you fold w/AA because the field will be narrowed to 11? That's a mistake. I definitely make the call. You win there and you can dominate the bubble and very likely win, barring any bad luck.

In regards to the OP, I have folded AA preflop. When I was playing SNGs, I'd fold (any) hands on the bubble if there was a short stack to my right and deeper stacks to abuse on my left. That way I can put pressure on the deep stacks (ICM or player who just wants to min cash) and almost all but guarantee a win.

I'll try to find a few hand histories w/some examples..

Originally Posted by Ipokergood

I disagree. Even in a DON situation, wouldn't you want to call with AA preflop and try and end it right there? And if you are SS and folding AA preflop hoping someone eles will make a mistake, why not try and double/triple up knowing if you lose, you at least made the correct mathematical call? Maybe I could see someone folding AA preflop if you are playing in a high stakes DON and there are a few people all in. Still what if the 2 people at risk are both holding AK and hit a K to bust the other guy holding 1010... Folding AA just doesn't seem logical to me. Maybe I'm wrong.

It's obviously situation dependent, but I had a business partner/staking partner/coach that played the DoNs (100s+) and there are times where it's correct to fold AA preflop in a DoN.

Originally Posted by Ipokergood

IMO, It's really never correct to fold AA preflop. Especially not in a small stakes tournament, DON or not. The ONLY way I might fold AA preflop, is if we are down to the last 10 people in the WSOP ME and there are more then 2 people all in, and that's still a pretty big MIGHT.

I think some of it comes down to your playing style. When I played SNGs, I was very aggro on the bubble, as well as manipulative. I took many risks/spots where others might not, just to secure a top 2 payout (I played primarily 18turbos, then moved to 90s on FTP when I got booted of Stars)... sometimes this meant folding to a short stack (didn't matter if it was AA or 72o), so that I can abuse the deeper stacks. This also meant a few more 5-6th (bubble) busts, but overall I made more money per game. That's a whole another discussion though

I realize the first question that comes to mind is, why not call, bust the SS and make it into the money. Good point -- however, once you do that, the other players can start calling you lighter. You can't really beat them up like you can with a short stack there on the bubble.

Anyway, I don't want to derail the thread too much, but I do think there are times when you can fold AA. Yeah, you might be 60-80% to win or w/e preflop, but it's also important to consider future spots/situations in your decision too (I am talking primarily SNGs fwiw, although I'm sure it can be applied elsewhere).

Yeah I understand where you're coming from. Like I said, I might be wrong, and maybe it's a pride thing, but I just can't see myself folding AA preflop in any situation.

Yeah, I hear you. I don't think you're wrong at all ...going all in w/AA is obv the correct thing to do probably 95% of the time. I'm just saying there is plenty of room in that 95% to do the wrong thing, for better opportunities in the future.