Where did I go wrong?

**NeedsAdvice** · 09-28-2009

1-Table Double or Nothing SNG. I'm basically trying to learn the in's and out's of representing a hand no matter what I have. I practice a lot in trying to read my opponents hand more than worrying about winning, but this hand just baffles me.

PokerStars Game #33396895679: Tournament #199260037, $1.00+$0.10 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 2009/09/28 15:37:10 CT [2009/09/28 16:37:10 ET]
Table '199260037 1' 10-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: jaito1985 (1245 in chips)
Seat 2: Hero (2235 in chips)
Seat 3: lumoda (1540 in chips)
Seat 5: 19mat84 (4960 in chips)
Seat 6: Villian (2210 in chips)
Seat 8: sampejon (1165 in chips)
Seat 9: Kobold Esq (1645 in chips)
jaito1985: posts the ante 25
Hero: posts the ante 25
lumoda: posts the ante 25
19mat84: posts the ante 25
Villian: posts the ante 25
sampejon: posts the ante 25
Kobold Esq: posts the ante 25
jaito1985: posts small blind 125
Hero: posts big blind 250
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [9h 9s]
lumoda: folds
19mat84: folds
Villian: raises 250 to 500
sampejon has timed out while being disconnected
sampejon: folds
sampejon is sitting out
Kobold Esq: folds
jaito1985: folds
Hero: raises 500 to 1000
Villian: calls 500
*** FLOP *** [3c 8h As]
Hero: checks
Villian: bets 250
Hero: raises 500 to 750
Villian: calls 500
*** TURN *** [3c 8h As] [7c]
Hero: checks
Villian: checks
*** RIVER *** [3c 8h As 7c] [5c]
Hero: checks
Villian: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Hero: shows [9h 9s] (a pair of Nines)
Villian: shows [Tc Td] (a pair of Tens)
Villian collected 3800 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3800 | Rake 0
Board [3c 8h As 7c 5c]
Seat 1: jaito1985 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Hero (big blind) showed [9h 9s] and lost with a pair of Nines
Seat 3: lumoda folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: 19mat84 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Villian showed [Tc Td] and won (3800) with a pair of Tens
Seat 8: sampejon folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Kobold Esq (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

I tried hard to represent an A here. I didn't think he had one even after he called my raise, but I couldn't put him on a hand making me just check to the showdown. Should I have bet more? As you can see from the chip stacks, a raise to 750 is quick substantial. What should I have done?

**triple-t** · 09-28-2009

I'm not sure if it's right for a DoN, but I shove PF.

On the flop, I bet out then fold to a raise. If called, I try to check it down.

**crowjo** · 09-30-2009

I have a feeling you win this pot a high % of the time if you bet the turn. Why check raise the flop and check, check. You bet 2/3s or slightly more than half the pot on the turn I doubt he's calling. My 2 cents.

**youngplayer9** · 09-30-2009

uhhh shove PF

**NeedsAdvice** · 09-30-2009

Originally Posted by crowjo

I have a feeling you win this pot a high % of the time if you bet the turn. Why check raise the flop and check, check. You bet 2/3s or slightly more than half the pot on the turn I doubt he's calling. My 2 cents.

I would have if I'd had the chips. Betting the turn would have essentially been a shove, which, if he called, would have put most of his chips in the middle, too. At that point, I thought he was pot-committed, and I figured he would call any bet I threw at him. I guessed that he had me beat with higher PP, so I tried to save chips for a future endeavor.

**triple-t** · 09-30-2009

Originally Posted by triple-t

I'm not sure if it's right for a DoN, but I shove PF.

On the flop, I bet out then fold to a raise. If called, I try to check it down.

Originally Posted by NeedsAdvice

I would have if I'd had the chips. Betting the turn would have essentially been a shove, which, if he called, would have put most of his chips in the middle, too. At that point, I thought he was pot-committed, and I figured he would call any bet I threw at him. I guessed that he had me beat with higher PP, so I tried to save chips for a future endeavor.

Looking at the hand again, I might even fold this PF. This is a DoN so 5 ppl get paid the same amount. There are only 2 players left to knock out before the money and 3 have critical or close to critical stacks. You are out of position with a hand that's going to suck on the flop most of the time.

Now, I've never played a DoN, so I don't know whether shoving or folding is the right play, but I think both are better than calling or putting in a small raise.

**Brokerstar** · 10-01-2009

Forget the hand for a second and lets talk theory.

You said that you're trying to read peoples hands right? So what range of hands are you putting the villain on here?

By raising the flop you are essentially turning a hand that has pretty good showdown value into a bluff.

When you min raise pre flop, you are also commiting a large amount of your stack and kind of over repping your hand. Again is the villain loose, tight, how is he playing? If you think you're ahead of his range then why not just ship it pre flop? If you're not sure then why are you just not flat calling?

It will help me to help you if you run me through your thought process here?

Broker

**DeeYakaBaka** · 10-04-2009

considering ur stack size and the blinds, once u have decided ur gonna play this (which is prob ~90% of the time), push pf and take the thinking out of the equation.

Once u have ~10BB's left, making a smaller raise is just committing yourself to the pot no matter what comes on the flop so take the initiative yourself and let others worry about making the correct decision and hoping they suck out on u.

SNGs are won and lost during high blind play so be the aggressor and sit back and enjoy the benefits.

**NeedsAdvice** · 10-06-2009

Originally Posted by Brokerstar

Forget the hand for a second and lets talk theory.

You said that you're trying to read peoples hands right? So what range of hands are you putting the villain on here?

By raising the flop you are essentially turning a hand that has pretty good showdown value into a bluff.

When you min raise pre flop, you are also commiting a large amount of your stack and kind of over repping your hand. Again is the villain loose, tight, how is he playing? If you think you're ahead of his range then why not just ship it pre flop? If you're not sure then why are you just not flat calling?

It will help me to help you if you run me through your thought process here?

Broker

As far as I remember, Villain was min-raising a lot of hands, about 35-40%. A couple times before I had raised his min-raises, and he simply folded. I just wanted to take the pot right there. He seemed to be a pretty LAG player who backed off when his opponents showed significant strength. That's what I was trying to represent. He certainly was raising with a very wide range of hands, but at best after he called my raise on the flop, I put in on like KQ, KJ, JQ, etc. I was 95% sure he didn't have an A. I would have shipped it pre-flop if I'd have had less chips and needed to double up. In this case, though, I had be running pretty terribly and didn't want to risk a coinflip.

After he donk bets, I was pretty sure he had nothing and wanted to show that strength of an A to make him fold. Remember, that was putting his tournament on the ropes, too. We had nearly the same amount of chips. Wouldn't you have folded with 10's on a flop like that?

Explain what you mean when you say, "By raising the flop you are essentially turning a hand that has pretty good showdown value into a bluff." Very, very few of the hands in this SNG went to showdown. By raising his donk bet, I was pretty sure I could take it down. People get cautious when they get below 1000 or so chips in these DONs.

**triple-t** · 10-06-2009

Originally Posted by NeedsAdvice

Explain what you mean when you say, "By raising the flop you are essentially turning a hand that has pretty good showdown value into a bluff."

When you raise with a hand that you'll fold if reraised, that's turning it into a bluff.

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