I don't get your logic in wanting to 3-bet the flop and yet folding to the river bet. I play it the same as you wound up doing but what is your reasoning there in thinking you're best on the flop but not on the tunr?

I fold PF in the second hand. Also when you think for that long and call it's so obvious what your hand is. Also I'd probably raise the turn.

One last thing - make it one hand per thread in future.

Welcome to the forums.

1 - It's an easy call of the minraise, yes. What I didn't get was how you say "should I have repopped the flop" then check/fold a turn that changes nothing.

2 - You don't bet "to see where you're at", you bet for value or as a bluff.

3 - You have one of the worst hands in the worst position. Pot odds aren't everything.

You don't bet "to see where you're at", you bet for value or as a bluff.

Of course you bet to see where you're at, sometimes. It depends on the opponent and the situation, though. If you think he'll lay down a single heart on a blank turn if you lead out again, calling the flop min-raise and leading the turn is correct. You're not bluffing and you're not betting for value... you're a) protecting your hand from a draw, b) avoiding getting bluffed, and c) finding out if he has a flush for your own price, rather than check-calling bets on turn and river.

Bets, or rather opponents' response to your bets, obviously get you information. But if you have no reason to bet other than for info then that sucks imo.

Leading the turn is a bet for value as you get value out of hearts and weaker Qs.

I guess we're kind of on the same page. The reason aggression is the key to good poker is that there are so many things a bet can accomplish, whereas there are much fewer reasons to check or call. I was a Go player before I was a poker player, and one of the keys to good Go is making multi-purpose moves. The more, the better... if you can find a spot to bet the turn which will give you info about your opponent's hand, get money out of a draw, and set up a river bluff against a stronger hand, well, that's the best thing possible.

I think sometimes the main purpose of betting is for information, though... e.g. you raise JJ preflop, the flop comes Q93 rainbow and the guy donkleads. You could call and evaluate the turn, but you could also raise to find out where you are. He's probably not folding a decent Q, nor is he calling with a 9... so you're not betting for value and you're not really bluffing, since you actually did beat the hands you made fold... you're just finding out where you are more cheaply than you would by calling him down, and also avoiding a possible suckouts or scare cards on the turn.

Is Go that white/black stones game? Chinese, right?

I've played that a couple of times.

Re: JJ on Q9x - you're basically folding all 9s and lower and getting Qs to call. That's the total opposite of what a bet is supposed to accomplish.

Originally Posted by MJPerry

Re: JJ on Q9x - you're basically folding all 9s and lower and getting Qs to call. That's the total opposite of what a bet is supposed to accomplish.

On the river, that's true. It's not so simple on the flop and turn. Of course, you really don't want to see a flop of Q9x when you have JJ... but it's too weak just to fold... calling potentially puts you in a bad spot, though it's certainly an option. Maybe a stronger player will step in and shed some light here, but I'm pretty sure you're supposed to raise JJ in that situation at least part of the time, as it can get you to showdown more cheaply, sometimes fold a weak Q, and stop various hands you beat from drawing out on you.

Yes, Go is the game with B&W stones, invented in China many thousand years ago, now played extensively throughout east Asia. I learned it while teaching in Korea.