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  1. #1
    Fish Food
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    Default What do do here?

    MTT, 9 handed w/ blinds at 300/600 with Ante at 50.

    I'm CO w/ Kh8h.

    I have ~19k chips

    BB just moved over from another table and has ~9k chips (2nd lowest stack on the table - avg was probably ~22k)

    All fold to me...I raise to 2k (OTB is away from table)

    SB fold...BB thinks for a little while, and eventually calls.

    Flop is 2h4s6h

    BB checks, I bet 2k, BB goes All-In (total ~7k)

    What do you do?

    If he's Ace High or only has a pair...I have 15 outs (assuming he doesn't have a heart). Best scenario Pot
    odds are right to call...but I lose this pot, I take a pretty big hit with blinds about to go up soon.

    Would have you played this differently? Thinking I might have simply checked also to see next card.


  2. #2
    Staff News Poster MJPerry's Avatar
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    Default

    I think this is probably the easiest call ever.

  3. #3
    Fish Food
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    Default

    Thing is...we're mid-tournament ($100 buy-in), still over ~35 players left (from a total of 58).

    Best case scenario, I'm behind and have a race situation where I'm slightly ahead... win and I'm in a good position chip-wise, lose and I'm down to ~10k chips with blinds about to hit 400/800 and 500/1000 (in another 15 min) which basically doesn't leave much leeway.

    Again...strictly looking at pot odds, it's an easy call.

    Suppose I check, and I see that I don't hit anything...and he goes all-in after the turn. What now? Same hand, but now the pot odds don't justify a call...

    That's why I'm wondering if I shoulda just checked to see a free card.
    Last edited by Tokoki; 10-29-2008 at 07:36 AM.

  4. #4
    Stu Ungar sk8freak_21's Avatar
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    Default

    Would have you played this differently?
    yes, i wouldnt try to steal blinds from someone who has a perfect reshove stack

    but as played you have to call
    the two best MTT training sites on the net
    http://www.pokerpwnage.com/?ref=486
    http://www.pokerxfactor.com/

  5. #5
    Fish Food
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8freak_21 View Post
    yes, i wouldnt try to steal blinds from someone who has a perfect reshove stack
    Hmm, interesting point. With the button being away from the table and everybody else folding to me, figured with the suited King it was worth a shot - especially with the blinds being lower while not being in push or fold situation...

    Quote Originally Posted by sk8freak_21 View Post
    ...but as played you have to call
    Mathematically, yes. If you're thinking about tournament survival, that's another story, wouldn't you say?

  6. #6
    Mike McDermott tightagressive's Avatar
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    Default

    why so much preflop?

    and on the flop it's the easiest call ever

    why would you bet if you are folding to a shove from that stack size? if you were going to bet fold why not just check the flop?

  7. #7
    Fish Food
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    Quote Originally Posted by tightagressive View Post
    why so much preflop?
    Point was to hopefully steal the blinds...pretty sure that anything less was a guaranteed call by at least 1, if not both. Might as well not do anything at that point, no? (which may have been a better option overall)

    Quote Originally Posted by tightagressive View Post
    and on the flop it's the easiest call ever

    why would you bet if you are folding to a shove from that stack size? if you were going to bet fold why not just check the flop?
    I guess that's where I've been going...I should have checked, and then see where he was going...agression got the better of me I guess.

    That's the thing I've been trying to work on my tournament play - controlled agression as opposed to simply deciding beforehand that once I'm in, I'm in no matter what...Lately, it's been either that (not being patient enough) or being bordering weak-tight (!) which I've definitely worked on this last MTT to make sure that I wasn't...

    btw...results below (highlight):

    Did call...He showed A4, and didn't hit any of my outs.

    That pretty much crippled me though...once blind were 400/800, I did go to see a raised flop with KQs that didn't hit, and had to fold to an all-in (he had top pair). After that, i was on life support and went all in with QT and got called by BB with A7, and that was it for me.

    So I've been trying to figure out what went wrong with this hand.

    Options are:

    1) Just fold and nevermind trying to go for the blinds (that button moving away on the table is what got me thinking about trying)

    or, if attempting to steal
    2) Check the flop and hope to hit (which I'm now thinking was probably what I should have done)

    3) Put in a bet (which I did) and either fold to the all-in - strictly a tournament survival call (non-call!) at this point
    4) Put in a bet and call the all-in...which did me in



    So, I guess the other question is - once I did put in that bet on the flop (as bad as it may have been, putting me in this position)...how much do you consider tournament survival vs strictly pot odds...

    Last edited by Tokoki; 10-29-2008 at 10:25 AM. Reason: Spelling (or lack thereof)

  8. #8
    Siddhartha Pinguaq's Avatar
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    Default

    So you've already put in $4k, the pot is $6k and your thinking of folding here to $5k more? With a K high flush draw on the flop. If you lose you still have $10k, if you fold you have $15k, if you win you have $28k... you should have decided what you would do if he pushd before you bet the flop. This is an insta-call.
    "People are always blaming their circumstances for what they are. I don't believe in circumstances. The people who get on in this world are the people who get up and look for the circumstances they want, and if they can't find them, they make them." - George Bernard Shaw

  9. #9
    Poker Hustler 22Fish's Avatar
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    This is an instant call for me aswell, people over-value "survival". I either check shove or open shove this flop as played. If I check and he shoves its more of a decision. Do not stop stealing the blinds, just find better spots to do so.

    Towards the end of a tourney when I really start playing position rather than cards I will try to steal the blinds for as little as they will let me take them. 1600 Often works here.

    Keep pounding big blind untill he starts re-raising light.

  10. #10
    Fish Food
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    The thing about this hand at that time is that I'm about at the chip average, not anywhere near the end of this tournament, and post flop, I was basically risking nearly half my stack in a basic coin flip.

    How can you not consider survival at this point and figure out that you're better off either trying to get a free card and hit, or get out? Or is that my weak-tight diseased mind playing tricks on me again?

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