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  1. #1
    Stu Ungar triple-t's Avatar
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    Default Sound Reasoning or Donkish?

    I posted this hand in Glory Corner so you probably know how it turned out. I just want to run my reasoning by you guys to see if it was sound or donkey-like. This was the 2nd hand of the $16 turbo SnG.

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

    saw flop|saw showdown

    Hero (t1500)
    Button (t1490)
    SB (t1480)
    BB (t1500)
    UTG (t1500)
    UTG+1 (t1500)
    MP1 (t1530)
    MP2 (t1500)
    MP3 (t1500)

    Preflop: Hero is CO with , .
    5 folds, Hero raises to t80, Button calls t80, 2 folds.
    Standard preflop raise.

    Flop: (t190) , , (2 players)
    Hero bets t150, Button raises to t300, Hero calls t150.
    Standard flop bet here. The flop sucks as it puts 2 of the cards I didn't want to see out there as well as a flush draw, though I'm really not that worried about the FD because the ace is on the board and I have the King. The button minraises which could just about anything from air to an 8 to an ace.

    Turn: (t790) (2 players)
    Hero checks, Button bets t1110 (All-In), Hero calls t1110.
    I think this ace is good news. It drastically reduces the odds that he has an ace in his hand. I check to get some information from him. When he pushes, I go in the tank. I reasoned that he probably doesn't have the ace because his line doesn't make since for an ace. Maybe if he smooth-called my flop bet, I'm folding here. Maybe if he bet a reasonable amount, but I think he probably would have checked behind to get me to put more money in on the river. I can see this play from someone with a pair in the hole, an 8, or even a bluff since I just called his minraise and checked here. So I looked him up.
    I study at KRE8R's School of Bankroll Management.

    If you IM me looking for money or a trade, you will be blocked.

  2. #2
    Banned
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    Default

    id play it the same way you did. id probably instacall his raise on the turn. no reason for Ax to shove there, ESPECIALLY with position on you. I put him on 99-JJ or so and 90% of the time take his chips :]

    what was the result?

  3. #3
    Stu Ungar triple-t's Avatar
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    The result is in this thread: Tilt Relief

    That's pretty much what I thought. 99-JJ, maybe 88 (explains the minraise a little more).
    I study at KRE8R's School of Bankroll Management.

    If you IM me looking for money or a trade, you will be blocked.

  4. #4
    Mike McDermott
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    Default

    He could so easily be pushing this turn with an Ace but there is no way I'm folding.

    Flop bet is a LITTLE bit too big but I'm picky sometimes :-)
    Quote Originally Posted by WotaWaster View Post
    LOL. David "Double Barell" ab157 says check. Check it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by WotaWaster View Post
    Brag: I cashed out $25k into a $ based bank account and have been to lazy to change it into £'s and earned hundreds of pounds through my laziness.

  5. #5
    Stu Ungar triple-t's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jharding666 View Post
    He could so easily be pushing this turn with an Ace but there is no way I'm folding.

    Flop bet is a LITTLE bit too big but I'm picky sometimes :-)
    I rounded the pot up to 200 and bet 3/4. That's my standard bet when a 2 flush is on the board.

    As far as pushing with an ace on the turn, I just don't see it. Most donkeys (and he def was a donkey) would have checked (or donk bet) hoping I'd fire at the river. These idiots slowplay so much that it's amazing they ever put a bet in the pot.
    I study at KRE8R's School of Bankroll Management.

    If you IM me looking for money or a trade, you will be blocked.

  6. #6
    Mike McDermott
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    Quote Originally Posted by triple-t View Post
    I rounded the pot up to 200 and bet 3/4. That's my standard bet when a 2 flush is on the board.

    As far as pushing with an ace on the turn, I just don't see it. Most donkeys (and he def was a donkey) would have checked (or donk bet) hoping I'd fire at the river. These idiots slowplay so much that it's amazing they ever put a bet in the pot.
    Well I'm under the impression that just as often donks overshove monsters. In fact shoving an Ace would not be a terrible play.
    Quote Originally Posted by WotaWaster View Post
    LOL. David "Double Barell" ab157 says check. Check it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by WotaWaster View Post
    Brag: I cashed out $25k into a $ based bank account and have been to lazy to change it into £'s and earned hundreds of pounds through my laziness.

  7. #7
    River Rat
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    The flop mini-raise probably tells one of two things:

    (1) The guy thinks he has a moderate holding, and tries to test your strength. Your call didn't give out any particular clue away, but an Ace or 8 is a possibility. His turn all-in call would be very risky and unlikely given not enough evidences. If he has an Ace, he probably would have just called your flop bet, not wanting to scare you the bluffer away. Therefore, you should call here.

    (2) The guy is a donk who does not raise with any other amount than a mini-raise. From my experience with some of my friends who always minirasise, they are usually pretty confident about their hands when they do that. Now the turn card came and he probably thinks he has the best hand. Maybe QQ-99. If he has an Ace he would have bet a little bit to get more money from you. So you can still call here.

    By the way, I have also seen some weak players bluff with just a little raise. But if they get you called they should know they shouldn't bluff anymore. I jumped to your the other thread to see what he has. I have no idea why he would still bluff at you knowing that you have a high chance of calling. Weird play indeed.
    Last edited by maltz; 09-30-2007 at 06:39 PM.

  8. #8
    Poker Hustler
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    What helped you is the turn card. Put another 8 or a heart on the turn, and you are in serious thinking mode. But once the turn came an Ace, giving you the full house, and him pushing like that, it was all over.

  9. #9
    Stu Ungar triple-t's Avatar
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    The ace on the turn pretty much guaranteed I was either doubling up or busting early.
    I study at KRE8R's School of Bankroll Management.

    If you IM me looking for money or a trade, you will be blocked.

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