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  1. #1
    Mike McDermott tightagressive's Avatar
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    Default raising preflop, bet sizing, maybe some random theory, etc

    I would say over 60% of posts here all have simple mistakes with the size of your bets/raises. Since I can't currently make video and people continue to drop hints about more videos, hopefully this will tide you over and give you much to consider while you are on autopilot at the tables.

    Preflop bet sizing:
    Somehow, most, but not all are not familiar with the concept of 3 or 4xbb +1bb/limper. So lets just get that out there. All of your open raises should be the same amount. An open raise is when you open the betting, it folds to you and you raise. This is because you will be raising preflop with not only your premium hands, you will raise (and, re raise sometimes) with small pairs, suited connectors, suited aces, and hands like JQ/KQ. (if you are open limping preflop you are not ready for this post) If you are always raising more with your strong hands and less with your less strong hands, you will be easier to play against. This is a disaster.

    Now lets get complicated. Do you want to open raise to 3x, 3.5x, 4x, or 5x. This is a topic I have spoken to many people with, and after hearing everyones replies and experimenting lots, I believe that the amount you choose to open to, should actually depend on your open raising range. For instance, there are many many many many many different scenarios in poker, many will be overlooked, fyi.
    Lets say you play 6 handed NLHE online, and you buy in for the full amount(I hope). lets assume its 100nl.

    Personally, if it folds to me on the button in this scenario and the blinds are your typical nl100 players, and have at least 50bb, my open raising range is going to be very very loose. So, I chose to open raise to 3x. This is why
    -When you open so many hands, you will be cbetting lots of hands also. Raising to 3x the pot will be smaller when you get to the flop, and your cbets will cost less when they dont work (as will your open steals!) however, when you have a big hand, the money will probably get in anyway.

    Same scenario, only say you are a full ring player and open a lot less, or just in general are not comfortable with such a loose aggressive style. Then you should be raising to 4x the blind. On average you will be cbetting stronger hands on the flop (because many of the weak hands you DID raise preflop, you no longer do in this scenario) and since you have a tighter range, you protect your good hands more.

    And of course with however many limpers there are, just add a big blind.
    Re raising is a lot easier. If someone raises and you want to re raise, re raise 3.5x their bet, unless the stacks are deeper or somone calls inbetween, then you need to raise more. You can also re raise a little more oop than you would in position. This is something i am going to try for a while and see if I like it.


    THE FLOP:
    Now everyone and their mother has heard someone say that your cbets should be around 2/3-3/4 pot. THIS IS TOO GENERAL! Have you ever considered when it is appropriate to bet 2/3 the pot, and when you should bet more?

    Scenario: nl100 4 handed. 100bb stacks. CO folds, its to you OTB with You raise to 3x the bb, the sb calls, who is a bad and passive player.

    The flop is
    This is a dry flop. the flop is considered dry because there is no flush draw, reasonable straight draws, etc. This is the sort of flop that if he checks, I would cbet about 2/3 the pot. This is because the 3/4 pot bet isn't necessary when there are less hands he can continue with on the flop. You are betting 2/3 of the pot here with absolute air AND YOUR STRONG MADE HANDS.

    On wet flops, say JavaScript Qs 8h, your cbets should be more. because now there are draws, and when you cbet your good hands here to 3/4 pot, you need to cbet when you miss to 3/4 pot too.


    I'm going to go see that new bourne movie, I will ramble on about how when you have the nuts your bet sizes should be tailored to your opponents stack so you can get all in by the river, how much to bluff when bluffing, and importantly, THE USE OF THE MIN RAISE! enjoy

  2. #2
    Stu Ungar OrionPro's Avatar
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    great post +1 for starting the topic...

    Quote Originally Posted by tightagressive View Post
    On wet flops, say JavaScript Qs 8h, your cbets should be more. because now there are draws, and when you cbet your good hands here to 3/4 pot, you need to cbet when you miss to 3/4 pot too.
    Maybe check-folding those flops is an option to consider? If you expect a call, then you want to have the hand you're representing. Unless you intend to double-barrel safe turns.

    Quote Originally Posted by tightagressive View Post
    I'm going to go see that new bourne movie, I will ramble on about how when you have the nuts your bet sizes should be tailored to your opponents stack so you can get all in by the river, how much to bluff when bluffing, and importantly, THE USE OF THE MIN RAISE! enjoy
    Epic will love that one
    Last edited by OrionPro; 08-07-2007 at 05:39 PM.

  3. #3
    Stu Ungar sk8freak_21's Avatar
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    good post TA

  4. #4
    Chaser
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    Thanks partner.

  5. #5
    Banned
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    i love you

  6. #6
    Super Moderator davidab157's Avatar
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    Nice post, can't wait for the minraise justification thread!
    For Free Money, Rakeback and some 6x Ongame bonuses, I recommend PokerSource.

    I recommend Cardrunners for superb poker coaching. It was honestly the single biggest improvement in my game signing up there! Sign-up fee might seem steep, but it pays itself back within weeks.

  7. #7
    Staff News Poster MJPerry's Avatar
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    Wicked post, can't wait for the rest.

  8. #8
    Chaser
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    there must some instances where you open limp?

    Quote Originally Posted by tightagressive View Post
    (if you are open limping preflop you are not ready for this post) If you are always raising more with your strong hands and less with your less strong hands, you will be easier to play against. This is a disaster.

  9. #9
    piv
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    Stu Ungar piv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lewdtenant View Post
    there must some instances where you open limp?
    No. Why do it? If you're only doing it with a certain range of hands (small pairs and SCs seem to be popular) your opponents will pick up on it. If you hand can't stand a raise dont play it. If you want to play it raise it.

    Also, if you don't raise pf, it's impossible to built a big pot after the flop when you do hit since there's like 3bb in the pot.

  10. #10
    Stu Ungar obga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lewdtenant View Post
    there must some instances where you open limp?
    you never, ever open limp in 6max

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