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  1. #1
    Super Moderator davidab157's Avatar
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    Default Should I be dumping this preflop?

    The hand I went out of the 20k guaranteed on. Antes were at 600 so starting pot is about 14k. I'm second guessing myself on this one, the blinds are soooooooooo worth stealing at this point, but am I wrong to raise this? Should I wait for a better hand?

    EDIT: I should probably add the info for what it's worth. I just got moved to the table so no reads. 47 left, money really doesn't get interesting until the final table (like $300 for 9th), there is a money bubble at 45 for an extra $11 if that matters.

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t6000 (8 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

    saw flop|saw showdown

    UTG (t156897)
    UTG+1 (t124787)
    MP1 (t89644)
    Hero (t69180)
    CO (t157336)
    Button (t33332)
    SB (t420270)
    BB (t230243)

    Preflop: Hero is MP2 with , .
    3 folds, Hero raises to t27000, CO raises to t72000, 3 folds, Hero calls t41580 (All-In).

    Flop: (t144180) , , (2 players, 1 all-in)

    Turn: (t144180) (2 players, 1 all-in)

    River: (t144180) (2 players, 1 all-in)

    Final Pot: t144180

    Results in white below:
    Hero has Ah 4h (one pair, sixes).
    CO has Jd Ac (one pair, sixes).
    Outcome: CO wins t144180.
    Last edited by davidab157; 07-14-2007 at 05:21 AM.
    For Free Money, Rakeback and some 6x Ongame bonuses, I recommend PokerSource.

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  2. #2
    Super Moderator WotaWaster's Avatar
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    Default

    Pot is 14k so your M is 5.
    Open push all in preflop.
    Best Current Ongame Deal.
    Make sure to join Cash is King program for extra cashback as you clear the bonus.

    https://www.betsafe.com/poker/promot...nertag=4529086

  3. #3
    Super Moderator davidab157's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WotaWaster View Post
    Pot is 14k so your M is 5.
    Open push all in preflop.
    I was thinking that, but for the last 30 mins or so I didn't see much open pushing, even though the M's were small. Most people still seemed to be going for the 3x-4x raises for about half their stack, I just kinda went along with what everyone else was doing.
    For Free Money, Rakeback and some 6x Ongame bonuses, I recommend PokerSource.

    I recommend Cardrunners for superb poker coaching. It was honestly the single biggest improvement in my game signing up there! Sign-up fee might seem steep, but it pays itself back within weeks.

  4. #4
    Stu Ungar OrionPro's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by davidab157 View Post
    I was thinking that, but for the last 30 mins or so I didn't see much open pushing, even though the M's were small. Most people still seemed to be going for the 3x-4x raises for about half their stack, I just kinda went along with what everyone else was doing.
    as a rule of thumb (imho):

    - against strong players, pushing=weak raising=strong
    - against weak players, pushing=strong raising=weak

    So in a low-buyin tournament, default I push here.

  5. #5
    Super Moderator WotaWaster's Avatar
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    I just kinda went along with what everyone else was doing.
    LOL.
    Best strategy post of the year!
    Best Current Ongame Deal.
    Make sure to join Cash is King program for extra cashback as you clear the bonus.

    https://www.betsafe.com/poker/promot...nertag=4529086

  6. #6
    Super Moderator davidab157's Avatar
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    Default

    If someone sig's that, I'll be happy

    EDIT: I sig'd it, HA!
    Last edited by davidab157; 07-14-2007 at 10:19 AM.
    For Free Money, Rakeback and some 6x Ongame bonuses, I recommend PokerSource.

    I recommend Cardrunners for superb poker coaching. It was honestly the single biggest improvement in my game signing up there! Sign-up fee might seem steep, but it pays itself back within weeks.

  7. #7
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    Default

    At this critical point in the tourney, I would shove with the top 15 hole cards. A4 suited ranks 38th in hole cards. Dump PF.

    I guess I enjoy being the dissenting opinion last day or so. The pushing strategy does not take in the tourney position or environment. Of course you want to win the tourney, but the 1st goal should be to make money so you can at least make this tourney a free roll. Worse case scenario you go thru the next 10 hands with bupkus and donate 14K putting you at 55K and probably in the money. Once you are in the money, you can be subjective with the top 40 hole cards. At that point, that A4s could be a shove.

  8. #8
    Super Moderator davidab157's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by willjim View Post
    At this critical point in the tourney, I would shove with the top 15 hole cards. A4 suited ranks 38th in hole cards. Dump PF.

    I guess I enjoy being the dissenting opinion last day or so. The pushing strategy does not take in the tourney position or environment. Of course you want to win the tourney, but the 1st goal should be to make money so you can at least make this tourney a free roll. Worse case scenario you go thru the next 10 hands with bupkus and donate 14K putting you at 55K and probably in the money. Once you are in the money, you can be subjective with the top 40 hole cards. At that point, that A4s could be a shove.
    I was in the money. Top 225 got paid, by money bubble I meant a new payout level at 45th.

    And I disagree about playing to make the money. That's fine in a sng but in a MTT with such a large payout for 1st ($5k) compared to 225th ($16), you have to give yourself the best chance to score big imo.
    For Free Money, Rakeback and some 6x Ongame bonuses, I recommend PokerSource.

    I recommend Cardrunners for superb poker coaching. It was honestly the single biggest improvement in my game signing up there! Sign-up fee might seem steep, but it pays itself back within weeks.

  9. #9
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    Default

    My statement was specifically for playing at the money bubble point (in this case at about 229 players until 225 players). After that your starting hands can become subjective to the other game variables (as they should be before this point also). Thats my opinion and i'm sticking to it.

  10. #10
    Stu Ungar OrionPro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidab157 View Post
    If someone sig's that, I'll be happy

    EDIT: I sig'd it, HA!
    bah... If you waited just a little longer I'd have sig'ed it.

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