AQ and the curse of playing, humm, "people"

**mister.x** · 06-27-2007

Yesterday, some people saw it, happened this

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB (t2030)
BB (t1130)
UTG (t1990)
Hero (t2000)
CO (t280)
Button (t1570)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A

, Q

.
1 fold, Hero raises to t120, 2 folds, SB calls t105, 1 fold.

Flop: (t270) Q

, Q

, 8

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t120, SB calls t120.

Turn: (t510) 7

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t180, SB calls t180.

River: (t870) 9

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t210, SB raises to t1610, Hero calls t1370 (All-In).

Final Pot: t4060

Results in white below:
SB has Jh Tc (straight, queen high).
Hero has Ac Qs (three of a kind, queens).
Outcome: SB wins t4060.

So I thought, I'm going to shut down next time stuff like this happens even though I Was facing donkey. Here's the hand. I "think" I played it correctly until it was over. When it's over, you always say "I should of just"...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (4 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

UTG (t2360)
Button (t2620)
Hero (t2100)
BB (t1920)

Preflop: Hero is SB with

,

.
2 folds, Hero raises to t120, BB calls t90.

Flop: (t240)

,

(2 players)
Hero bets t150, BB calls t150.

Turn: (t540)

(2 players)
Hero bets t1830 (All-In), BB calls t1650 (All-In).

River: (t4020)

(2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t4020

Results in white below:
Hero has Qh As (two pair, aces and eights).
BB has Tc Qc (flush, ace high).
Outcome: BB wins t3840. Hero wins t180.

Since he just called the flop bet, I thought he did not have a set, or AK, or A-8. He would of raised to protect his hand at least... or to find out where he's at. Am I wrong so far ? I should of been wrong, people are not that smart at 6.60 sng. Then, you put him on a flush draw. I doubt a str8 draw, highly unlikely, so he's got to be on a flush draw. A-Jc ? A-Qc ? Yes, having the Qc makes sense. K-Qc ? Best bet so far. Consedering my play, yesterday, I though I will shut down this time on the turn if it comes anything than a club. But has the outcome showed..... Qc-10c.

Why is it in people's head J-10o, Qc-10c a hand that you can call a raise 4X bb ? I hate this fucking mentallity where "oh well, ill see a flop, then fold". That was probably his state of mind. This guy probably did not know that he has a 10% chance of flopping a flush draw, less than 1% chance flopping a flush, and only 6% of suited cards make a flush BY THE RIVER. It don't matter. He's alone in the hand with me and he needs a HUGE draw to win it. His hand basically, was Q high with ok kicker. Any Ace, King, pocket pair, puts him in trouble. Am I overanalysing stuff here ? Do I need 7-8xBB raise with AQ-AK when the blinds are low ?

**squeezyplayer** · 06-27-2007

I don't know why you are so upset that he called your preflop raise with QT. He's plays like a donk, terrific. Where did you think the money comes from???

Your huge turn overbet is never getting called by a worse hand. I think betting something like 400 is a much better plan, to get value from weaker aces and from any hand with a high club. As a general rule, don't ever bet more than the size of the pot.

**OrionPro** · 06-27-2007

Originally Posted by squeezyplayer

I don't know why you are so upset that he called your preflop raise with QT. He's plays like a donk, terrific. Where did you think the money comes from???

Your huge turn overbet is never getting called by a worse hand. I think betting something like 400 is a much better plan, to get value from weaker aces and from any hand with a high club. As a general rule, don't ever bet more than the size of the pot.

I dont hate his play that much, except the weak flop lead. It's heads-up, extremely unlikely opponent flopped the nut flush. Turn shove might get called by a king and a club, maybe even just one higher club.

Leading weakly is great if we have the nuts or absolutely nothing. But here we need to protect a semi-strong hand.

**squeezyplayer** · 06-27-2007

Maybe I am underestimating the retardery of the opponent....but anyone with even just a handful of braincells up in his skull is never ever calling a 3x pot bet with less than AK here.

There's a fine line between protecting a hand and just straight up overplaying it.

**mister.x** · 06-27-2007

Originally Posted by squeezyplayer

Maybe I am underestimating the retardery of the opponent....but anyone with even just a handful of braincells up in his skull is never ever calling a 3x pot bet with less than AK here.

There's a fine line between protecting a hand and just straight up overplaying it.

What I really dont like about those 2 hands, is calling the preflop raise 4X BB with medeocre hands like J-10 and Q-10

Hand 1 was a total donkey getting lucky on the river
Hand 2 was getting lucky on the flop

Next AQ I post, I predict a donk getting lucky on the turn busting my nut 2 pairs on the flop with a set on the turn with having pocket 4's

**OrionPro** · 06-27-2007

Originally Posted by squeezyplayer

Maybe I am underestimating the retardery of the opponent....but anyone with even just a handful of braincells up in his skull is never ever calling a 3x pot bet with less than AK here.

I was talking about the flop bet, not the turn shove, and I'm not suggesting overbetting the flop either, just to bet a little more, maybe 200.

But anyways, I disagree that an overbet will shut down action from weaker hands. Broadway cards are very likely cards to flat call with, and they might well contain a club. In that case, villian has a pretty big hand. Villian could call with a gutshot+nut fd (12 outs), or with a pair+fd (14 outs), the latter is not retarded at all (if we shoved the flop)

You give immense credit here to villian, suggesting he flat calls with AA or even AK. This is not a $1000 buyin tournament I suppose. The only hand I'm afraid of here is something like A8 or K8. So if we get action we're probably up against a weaker hand, and we need to charge for every card.

**LordRahl86** · 06-27-2007

Squeezy: Pay attention to Orion. He has been playing a lot longer than you and has a positive ROI.

And, like Orion said, he could very likely be on a draw when calling this. Do you want him making a flush or a straight?

**mister.x** · 06-27-2007

Originally Posted by OrionPro

I was talking about the flop bet, not the turn shove, and I'm not suggesting overbetting the flop either, just to bet a little more, maybe 200.

But anyways, I disagree that an overbet will shut down action from weaker hands. Broadway cards are very likely cards to flat call with, and they might well contain a club. In that case, villian has a pretty big hand. Villian could call with a gutshot+nut fd (12 outs), or with a pair+fd (14 outs), the latter is not retarded at all (if we shoved the flop)

You give immense credit here to villian, suggesting he flat calls with AA or even AK. This is not a $1000 buyin tournament I suppose. The only hand I'm afraid of here is something like A8 or K8. So if we get action we're probably up against a weaker hand, and we need to charge for every card.

I said I don't think he flat calls with AK or AA because if he did had AK or AA, he should of reraised to protect the hand in my opinion. I put him on a draw, flush, with Qc but not flopping the nuts with Q-10. I did not expect Q-10 because again, I think you should fold Q-10 if oyu get raised 4XBB preflop unless you are playing heads-up (meaning heads up 2 people left only in the tournament), and you have a read of a player that he raises with any 2

**squeezyplayer** · 06-27-2007

Originally Posted by LordRahl86

Squeezy: Pay attention to Orion. He has been playing a lot longer than you and has a positive ROI.

Yes, hello

**squeezyplayer** · 06-27-2007

To clarify, what I mean by villain having AK at worst is that his range for calling a 3x pot bet is {flush,boat,8x,AK}. As for your suggestion of him calling a push with gutshot+flush draw...this is what I mean by retardery.

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