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  1. #1
    River Rat Auto's Avatar
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    Default Bubble Bust Hand...

    9-man $10 SNG

    Was 4-handed for about 2 1/2 blind levels, before this had every time it folded to the villain in the SB he had just called. So this raise kind set off the spider sences (DANGER! DANGER!), had a feeling like I was walking into a big bear trap.... however... can I really fold 9s here? Im the shortstack with M of 5, so if Im playing then Im all in...

    easy push... or should I have gone with my read and folded? Im I being too paranoid? I hate bursting on the bubble

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

    saw flop|saw showdown

    SB (t2815)
    Hero (t1500)
    UTG (t7325)
    Button (t1860)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with 9, 9.
    2 folds, SB raises to t600, Hero raises to t1500, SB calls t900.

    Flop: (t3000) A, 5, J (2 players)

    Turn: (t3000) J (2 players)

    River: (t3000) 4 (2 players)

    Final Pot: t3000

    Results in white below:
    SB has Qc Qd (two pair, queens and jacks).
    Hero has 9s 9d (two pair, jacks and nines).
    Outcome: SB wins t3000.
    "On a large enough time line, the survival rate of a Donk will drop to zero."

  2. #2
    Mike McDermott tightagressive's Avatar
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    Default

    there is not a single hand he raises with that he folds to your push, so, the value of your 9's (9's are huge in an unopened pot late in a sng) just went way down.

    pushing here is no differnt than if he pushed and you were deciding to call.

    would you call if he pushed? thats the answer to your question.
    (hint: what is his range? and is it worth it to gamble against this range on the bubble of a sng)

  3. #3
    River Rat Auto's Avatar
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    Default ...

    Ok, so I thought over what you said... basically there are 4 situations which Im interested in.

    I end up against... 2 overs, bigger pair, smaller pair, or one over (Im ignoring 2 under cards, since I think the chances of that is less then 3%)

    So roughly I think his range would be:
    situation 1: 50% 2 overs
    situation 2: 30% higher pair
    situation 3: 10% smaller pair
    situation 4: 10% 1 over

    situation 1:
    lose: .45% * -$1300 = -$585
    win: .55% * $1800 = $990
    overall: $405

    situation 2:
    lose: .8% * -$1300 = -$1040
    win: .2% * $1800 = $360
    overall: -$680

    situation 3:
    lose: .2% * -$1300 = -$260
    win: .8% * $1800 = $1440
    overall: $1180

    situation 4:
    lose: .35% * -$1300 = -$455
    win: .65% * $1800 = $1170
    overall: $715

    Final Outcome: .5(405)+.3(-680)+.1(1180)+.1(780) = 202.5 - 204 + 118 + 78 = $194.5

    So it seems like it was a slightly +EV decision. But considering that if I lose, I bust on the bubble Im thinking this is -EV situation to push here. You guys think im on the right track here? (Math might be messed up)
    Last edited by Auto; 10-14-2006 at 10:01 AM.
    "On a large enough time line, the survival rate of a Donk will drop to zero."

  4. #4
    Mike McDermott tightagressive's Avatar
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    1st off, dont worry about busting on the bubble. very good sng players should have the highest % of 1st place finishes.

    take a guess as to what the nest highest % should be?

    4th!
    you should be very very agressive on the bubble, willing to gamble for a stack. folding here is pretty weak imo, you are ahead of his range (which could be any 2 cards) and need more chips. this is a definant push, especaily cause you are short stacked.

    note though that you should not CALL loosely on the bubble, you should be playing push/fold and making lots of agressive pushes where you think you have fold equity.

    edit: ima make a bubble play thread

  5. #5
    River Rat Auto's Avatar
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    Default ...

    I agree that a usually a opponent in this situation is pushing with any two cards. If I truly had no read then pushing is the strongest play. But this oppenent was playing pretty tight and solid and he had never tried to steal my blind for almost 3 blind levels. I felt like there was alot of warning signs that this was a trap play, which I fell into. Most of the time I would push no questions asked, but I think on rare occassions you got to go with your gut feeling and pass on the hand. Maybe if this was live I could have got some other physical clues, hard to fold online though at a $10 sng level.
    "On a large enough time line, the survival rate of a Donk will drop to zero."

  6. #6
    Mike McDermott tightagressive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auto View Post
    I agree that a usually a opponent in this situation is pushing with any two cards. If I truly had no read then pushing is the strongest play. But this oppenent was playing pretty tight and solid and he had never tried to steal my blind for almost 3 blind levels. I felt like there was alot of warning signs that this was a trap play, which I fell into. Most of the time I would push no questions asked, but I think on rare occassions you got to go with your gut feeling and pass on the hand. Maybe if this was live I could have got some other physical clues, hard to fold online though at a $10 sng level.
    knowing what you just told me let me run it through sng pt:

    yeah, if hes raising with 66+, ATs+, AJo+, its a fold.

    i didnt know he was playing hellatight

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