MTT Hand, late in Rebuy

**OrionPro** · 10-10-2006

This is a key hand for me, I need as much input as possible to see what's the best way to play this hand.

I find 88 UTG, and raise it up 4xBB to prevent anyone from just calling.

A tag player raises me all-in. The problem is that the blinds are about to increase to 15000/30000, so I'm down to about 200k very quickly if I fold. That means in order to get to 700-800k I need to double up twice, and presuming it's going to be coinflips or worse, my chances are about the same as calling here as a 4:1 dog, if he holds a higher pair.

Now my questions:

1) What is the best amount to raise? Is limping an option?
2) Can I fold this preflop? Prob. of someone holding a higher pair = 16%. However, if someone pushes into me, he probably has exactly that, or AK.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20000 (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP2 (t956409)
CO (t128172)
Button (t131832)
SB (t742900)
BB (t709818)
Hero (t332976)
MP1 (t254453)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8

, 8

.
Hero raises to t80000, 1 fold, MP2 raises to t300000, 4 folds, Hero raises to t331976, MP2 calls t31976.

Flop: (t668952) J

, J

, K

(2 players)

Turn: (t668952) A

(2 players)

River: (t668952) 5

(2 players)

Final Pot: t668952

Results in white below:
Hero has 8d 8h (two pair, jacks and eights).
MP2 has Qd Qc (two pair, queens and jacks).
Outcome: MP2 wins t668952.

**the alex** · 10-10-2006

Shove or fold because you cannot and I mean CANNOT play this hand postflop in your position if you get called. Because it's shove or fold, looks at the stacks behind you and who has those stacks? Would you push this in a turbo? Talk about extenuating circumstances, considering the prize pools in these Stars rebuys.

I shove this more times than not, though I should be folding about 90% of the time. This is a time to place value in your chips. You have a bit over 16bbs. Every chip means more to you than a lot of stacks behind you. This is a fold.

Actually, folding 8's here is VERY tough, because it is a huge hand considering tournament structures, pushing ranges, calling ranges, etc. But I think it's the right move, though I'm usually shoving because I'm "tournament retarded."

Limping really isn't bad because your limp can steer off a large range of hands from raisng behind you, because of postion, AND induce limps to play for set or straight value. Again, this is so heavily dependent on your table and recent events at your table.

**OrionPro** · 10-10-2006

ty Alex, but I dont see a big diff here between raising and pushing, in this particular case. Who can flat call here? Only 1 stack can, that's MP2. The rest is OOP or too small (80k chips for a 1/3 chance to hit a flop-no way, plus I would most likely shove into them anyways when OOP)

What do you think, which pp can I play here? 99? TT? JJ?

I'll see if I can find something in HoH2...

**WotaWaster** · 10-10-2006

Given your 4bb raise thats an easy fold for me. You raised big precisely to discourage people from playing, so when someone reraises you have to listen to them. Are they really doing that with 77 or A5? If not then your are calling off your whole stack praying to be in a coinflip.

Personally I would prefer limping and playing for a set, lots of people (me included) are afraid to raise a UTG limp incase its AA/KK. This allows you to fold to a raise relatively cheaply.

If you are raising you may as well open push, since you are calling anyway when someone does have a higher pair and pushing may get hands which would reraise like AQ, 99-TT to fold.

**OrionPro** · 10-10-2006

I found an alternative in HoH2, ie to limp.

Someone might raise me, and I can then decide to push AI or to fold. The AI would be a big threat to experienced players, since it represents aces. They might lay down many pairs here, and probably AQ etc. Against bad players the push might not look threatening, but they might have raised with AJ or other junk, so I'm in good shape.

Still, folding might be the best play, not sure.

EDIT: Wota, didnt see your post while typing this. The idea here is however not to fold to a raise, but to push into a raiser. But in that example in HoH it was TT not 88.

**OrionPro** · 10-10-2006

Ok, I did the math on it, pushing 88 is almost certainly a mistake- even if we get 99 to fold. Only at a maniac/fish table it might be ok, where people will call with a wide range of hands. 99 is probably a fold too, TT is definitely pushable no matter what the table conditions are.

EDIT: I did a small mistake when doing the math, I overlooked that the smaller stacks cannot bust me, so probably 99 is a push too, maybe even 88. I'm prolly too lazy to do the precise math tho.

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