That it is impossible to make money consistently at online SnGs however good you are - not because its rigged but because there are always at least two idiots on every table - they may lose in the long run but as they are different idiots on each table they always seem to catch better players by getting lucky.

I started to play $100 SnGs - 10 players - at Paradise Poker to try and restrict my exposure to these people, but they seem to be everywhere. Although not a brillliant player I can say that most times I have all my chips in the middle I start with the better hand. I could be posting here all the time if I did so every time I get a bad beat - when my big raise with KK is called by 79o who flops 2 pair or when trips are beaten by runner runner straight - I'm only posting this time because it was the hand that made me give up on online poker.

$100 SnG - 6 players left. blinds 50/100 start with 1000 chips
I have 1100, other guy has 1225
Table had been pretty tight to this point

1 Folds
2 Calls
Me (with Ten Ten) Raises 600
4 Folds
SB Calls
BB Folds
2 Folds

Flop

6 8 9 Rainbow

SB Bets 300
I bet all-in
SB Calls - turns over KQo

Turn 3
River K

Now I know this isn't a really bad beat - but it pissed me off because:

1) I was sure I was ahead pre-flop - think I would have been raised by JJ-AA.
2) I was certain I was ahead after a great flop
3) Why did he call such a big raise from a tight player for half his chips with a good but not great hand? (I raised so high to ensure I got rid of the Ace-rag idiots)
4) I assume he then bet 300 on the flop to try to scare me off if I had missed, but given the size of the pot would it be enough anyway?
5) When I re-raised all in on the flop - did he think king high was winning? In fact - did he at any point in the hand think he was ahead?

It will probably turn out that I played this hand all wrong and deserved to lose, but the vent has made me feel better and it is the last chance I'll have to do it as I am giving up on these tournaments now.

Thank you!

i'll start by saying i feel for you, and it definitely sucks when it seems you just cant beat the fish. however, in all honesty, i dont like how you played the hand. 600 is too big of a raise preflop. if youre going to bet that, just go allin, because youre already committing more than half your stack to to the pot. im not saying i love his call here preflop, but either limp, raise to 300 or so, or push. what happens when you get called and the flop comes AKx? are you going to fold now? with over 50% of your stack in? and he bet 300, idk what the hell for, maybe he put you on an underpair that you might fold, or A-x which has him beat, but maybe you would fold to a bet. either way, when you go allin, for not even 300 more, of course he's calling. there's not much you could have that he didnt have pot odds to call for. this again gets back to the preflop raise of so much. you gave neither him nor you any chance to get away from this hand. that bet is ok with AA, KK, or AK, but i realy dont like it at all from TT... just my opinion

Thanks - I think this gives me more reasons to stop as I don't think I know how to beat these players. I deliberately raised so much to get rid of the 89 / QT / A3 type players who call in these games for around 300. Given the way people play in these games I would happily have accepted just taking the blinds, or if reraised preflop going in on a coinflip against AK or accepting bad luck / timing / play on my part if he had JJ - AA.
A 300 raise would have been called, (probably by others as well), he still would have put in a bet on the flop to which I would re-raise all-in - I guess with less of his chips commited he may have folded then but I doubt it.
Maybe I should have gone all-in, but this way I could still get out of the hand and stay in the tournament if I thought I was beaten... Plus I wouldn't be at all surprised if he had called my all-in with KQ.

The problem isnt the two idiots, it is the 6 or 7 rocks

in SnGs, the more idiots the better, you can just sit back and let them get knocked out. tight tables are much harder to make it through.

look at your situation here, average stack is 1600 and the blinds are 50/100 going to 75/150 in a few minutes.

everyone is at crunch time.

SnGs are a lot different than MTTs. SnGs are about knowing when to push all-in (in my opinion).

If the SnGs are regularly getting to this level with 6 people left, they will be hard to beat regularly.

Maybe you should work on your game at the lower limits.

Not true!

Many of us have built our bankrolls by beating these games. I personally think you are playing too high for your skill sets.....don't take that as an insult. I just think that in general you are going to find a better player at these levels......Beav is right, its not the 2 or 3 jackasses that concern me, it's the other players who play well and won't get knocked off, leading to a low M, crapshoot situation as the blinds get higher and many people remain.

Try dropping down to the lower stakes where you can work on your game a little. I know that may sound depressing if you enjoy the rush of gambling bigger stakes and winning bigger pots, but once you have fine tuned your game to beat people of all styles you can always move back up.

I have chosen a progression strategy. I started at the $5 SNG's....started dominating those games, got my roll up to a point i felt safe with $10 games and am crushing them right now.....roll is not big enough to move up to $20's yet, but its coming soon.

Each level will present you with different challenges and different skills you will need to develop...work on them, master the level, and then move up. Even if you hit a ceiling and find you can't beat a certain game, you can always drop down to a level you had mastered, and make a nice profit.

To me, its all just a challenge to see how high I can go....I am not really looking to make a living. But if I find I can add a few hundred a week by beating some of the higher stakes games, I won't be complaining.

Beavis is right...

I have a lot of succes in 10 man SNG and I win a lot of those seeing the flop like 4-5 times in the whol tournament... other hands are folded or all-in pre-flop... or raised so big all my opponents fold...

KJ

I think a good strategy for SnGs is to sit back, grab a tall, cold one, and wait for a big hand to do some damage. Of course this is in the beginning of the tourney. This gives the other players the impression that you are only playing premium hands (which you are). Once blinds hit 50/100 or so and there are only about 5 players left, it's time to open up and start stealing the blinds from the rocks (Who will be the only ones left). That will get you in the money. Once you are in the money, open up even more (only 3 left and if you were stealing you should have the big or 2nd stack). Once it is heads-up, almost any 2 cards are playable if you can put in the first raise.

__________________
I study at KRE8R's School of Bankroll Management.

I don't play as rockish as you guys do... I play much the same way as I do in MTT's. I keep the pot small and play aggressive in it.

Yeah, I don't mind calling an all-in reraise with AA obviously But when I have KK and it comes out 59J, I'm betting half the pot rather then the whole pot or pushing. Every once in a long while I will have to lay down a pretty good hand when someone makes a crazy bet on the river... but getting the chip lead WITHOUT risking getting knocked out by a stray 2 pair on the river is a good situation.

Dunno, don't play enough of them anymore to know whether this is actually a good strategy... but I've done pretty good in the recent ones.

Heh, I completely feel for you on this one.

I'm currently on a losing streak in SnG's. I play the waiting game of letting a big hand arrive and causing damage with it, this has always worked fine for me until recently. Im now getting beaten by completely moronic plays.

examples of my last 3 SnG exits (4th, 4th and 5th)

1, I have KK, flop is K57, i go all in (3rd in chips, 2nd in chips calls)
He shows 52o, turn 5, river 5.

2, I have QQ, flop comes 2 4 6, raise all in, (2nd in chips with the others just limping until me) 2 callers, Chip leader shows 99, 3rd in chips shows 55 . . . wait for it . . . . . turn 9, river 5 . . .

3, I have AA and am raised all in pre flop, he has 6d6h and of course gets his heart flush on the river . .

I'm going to play a few more then start playing online games that dont rob you. . . . .

Scratch my last post, i was in a losing streak at that point, which now seems to have ended :S

I've adjusted my play in that I wont go all in unless i have to, to stay alive. I just wait for the big hands and do my best to get paid off for them, then i bully a little bit on the bubble as people tighten up.

Won my last 2 SnG's now, with one of them being me on 1500 and the other player on 16500 heads up - if I can do ok then so can you.

Don't worry about the beats, Just try not to put yourself in a situation where a bad beat will knock you out more often than you have to