Table is deep NL10 6-max. I wouldn't sit at a table where the stacks looked like this. The two deepest stacks left 1 or 2 hands prior to this one. This was my 9th hand at the table. The first few hands were pretty wild. A few raises and 3-bets PF. Obv, any reads I have are premature, but I wasn't impressed by UTG's play to that point. BB was the only one I was worried about, but he didn't seem like a donk who got a lucky double up. Anyway, I raise to isolate the PF limp. Even 5 handed, is A9o strong enough to do this? Rest of the hand was standard, IMO. Also, how worried are we about QJ? It is certainly in his range throughout the hand.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

MP ($8.33)
Hero (Button) ($24.54)
SB ($10.11)
BB ($45.64)
UTG ($6.97)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9, A
UTG calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.40, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.30

Flop: ($1.05) K, A, 3 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.82, UTG calls $0.82

Turn: ($2.69) 9 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $2.18, UTG calls $2.18

River: ($7.05) 10 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $3.56, UTG calls $3.55 (All-In)

Total pot: $14.15 | Rake: $0.69

At higher limits A-9o isn't a hand I would want to raise too often but here at a 6-max table and from the btn vs a UTG limper it has it's merits - to isolate as you stated but also to feel out the limp. If he's slowplaying a raising hand, your btn raise should flush it out early and at the least cost - assuming you fold to a re-r!!! With a limp-call, I first put him on a sm pocket pair, 2nd suited mid connectors and 3rd 2 broadway overcards most likely with no ace or a weak ace like A-Ts. Monster hands (AA, KK, AK) should have re-r unless he has a real bad case of FPS (Fancy Player Syndrome)..

His call on the flop eliminates all sm pairs except 3-3 but leaves KQ, KJ, KT and that A-T. QJ?? maybe but not much, means chasing a gutshot vs 3/4 pot size bet... that's pretty loose without a flush draw to make it worth while.

I like the turn bet but now I'm really wondering what the hell is he calling with? I can't put him on K-? anymore unless he's a call stn or doesn't respect your bets (do you steal/bluff a lot??) so I figure he must have A-?. AK/AQ (doubt it) and pp 3-3 would/should have ck-r the turn and he's pot commited by just calling. Time to slowdown -

I ck-thru the river. That means giving up some value when I'm ahead but cuts my loses when I'm being slowplayed. 90% of the time I would figure A-9 is ahead on the river vs most players but 10% I figure I just got played by a set. The flop and turn were too rich for your pfr raise (rep big pair or big Ace) and his likely calling range for him to keep calling - I don't worry about QJ hardly at all after the Flop and not at all after the Turn - your bets were too high to chase a gutshot - unless this guy is a total fish! That leaves pocket 3-3 or A-? = bad news/good news.

I'm not a fan of Ax hands, but I don't think its a bad play either. What concerns me is his pre-flop call and then check/calls on the flop and turn. I'm guessing he'd limp with Axs, small pairs, any 2 broadways suited, and maybe suited connectors, but AA/KK/AK is not out of the question either.

Once he calls on the flop you can eliminate 90% of his pre-flop range leaving: Axs, random KX hands, 33, maybe QJ/JT and AA/KK/AK

The turn call takes out most Kx hands and JT/QJ (unless they are spades), so my guess is he is sitting on A2s-AJs, AQ, AK, KK, AA, 33.

I'm assuming he is calling with any of the above hands when a Ten hits the river so I would go ahead and put him all-in on the river as you're about a 2-to-1 favorite over that range --even if you throw in the oddball times he has 99/TT/JQ you're still a favorite, and since he can't raise you I think value-betting the river is the right play.

A9o is a super standard raise from the button, unless you expect to get 3bet a good amount of time.

Originally Posted by Steve Ruddock

I'm assuming he is calling with any of the above hands when a Ten hits the river so I would go ahead and put him all-in on the river as you're about a 2-to-1 favorite over that range --even if you throw in the oddball times he has 99/TT/JQ you're still a favorite, and since he can't raise you I think value-betting the river is the right play.

I'll correct myself on the % of time I figure A-9 is ahead on the river from 90% to just 50% since I failed to include the Ten on the river and one of the posssible hands he could be calling with to outdrawn our hero on the river.

I still ck-thru the river but even more easily than when I wasn't including a better Ace w/A-T on the river. Chips saved by ck-thru are just as important as chips earned by value betting and with that Ten on the river I am not so confident A-9 is ahead more than half the time and I still have to consider a set.
Only if I had better info on the villian - i.e. Is he a call-stn? - would I consider a value bet on the river. Also, our hero has only been playing a short time (only 9 hands) so it would be hard for the villian to put his pf raise as a bluff/steal so soon and call him down with just Kx unless he's a fish - also too early to tell with only 9 hands played.
In cash games, discresion and caution are often called for especially on the river vs an unknown opps who hasn't given up very much info - like a ck-r on the flop or turn (or even pf) and draws other than a gutshot str8 are not evident. He has enough to call (Ax) or is has FPS and is slowplaying a big hand. Slowdown on this hand, see what he's playing like and use that info for another occation with better info on his style and degree of trickiness. Giving up a little value here if ahead isn't bad or wrong and if behind, the saved chips have even more worth in future hands as it shows the opps you can read the action which should incourage passive players to come out of their bunkers with a bet/raise and reveal their strengh.

Originally Posted by KnightofNarg

A9o is a super standard raise from the button, unless you expect to get 3bet a good amount of time.

As I said in my first reply, raising a UTG limper to flush out a monster hand is a prime reason for the pf raise - especially from the Btn.

I'm always suspicious of UTG limpers until I can put that player on a pattern of limping a lot and is generally passive pf. An strong, solid or agg player always gets my attention with a limp from UTG or UTG+1. In either case I favour a pf raise from position 1st to punish the limper with a spec hand but more importantly to flush out the monsters being slowplayed. Of course I may be opening myself up to a 3-bet bluff but do I really want to fight with A-9o??
If I expect to "get 3-bet a good amount of time" then I obviously have a handle on the pf limper and will raise/trap accordingly. It's against the more questionable players that I want to pf raise to get more info on their hand. If they re-raise, I give the 3-bet respect until I am shown reasons otherwise but if they just call, I can start to put together a range of hands starting with pocket pairs. As well, depending on their fold/call/re-r, I can start putting a style to the player - loose, semi-loose, passive, small baller, tricky and so on.

Bets and raises are first and formost tools to gather information thru the use of aggression and pressure. Isolation, pot building, bluffs and mis-reping are all secondary. Forget this and you open up a big hole in your game b/c your playing with less information than could be made available to you thru selective aggression. IMO of course

This is precisely the hand you want to value bet on the river, where he is basically forced into calling with just about any made hand hand. Yes occasionally you will lose, but if you put him on A2s+, AT+ and possibly a set or rivered straight with QJs you're still ahead of his range 56/43, Why wouldn't you value bet if he is calling 100% of the time? You can't get raised

Originally Posted by Steve Ruddock

This is precisely the hand you want to value bet on the river, where he is basically forced into calling with just about any made hand hand. Yes occasionally you will lose, but if you put him on A2s+, AT+ and possibly a set or rivered straight with QJs you're still ahead of his range 56/43, Why wouldn't you value bet if he is calling 100% of the time? You can't get raised

Too much experieance at live tables vs FPS is probably my best excuse!

Online and for the info provided, I just don't have enough info on our villian to confidently value bet for 50% of the pot. Your best arguement (IMO - always just my opinion unless I quote a source) is that the villian can't raise! And if he could??

Suppose for arguements sake he had the same stack as our hero? Do you value bet now? If your answer is 'NO' then your making your value bet based on his stack size (bluff/semi-bluff) and not on the basis of having the best hand more often than not. If ck-raised, do you now make a crying call or fold? 3 broadway cards to the nut str8, a better 2 pair and don't forget a set possibility. Pressure is now on!!! Maybe a ck-thru was in order! But not if we put the villian all-in?? I question that decision making process!!

Sometimes giving up a little value to caution is worth more in the long run and that's what cash games are - the long run. Once we have a better idea of who the villian is and how he plays, then maybe we go for more value vs a call stn or know better and ck-thru more vs a trapper/FPS.

Originally Posted by Aces-o-8s

Too much experieance at live tables vs FPS is probably my best excuse!
.

Sometimes once we get good or better at somthing we tend to forget how it was before we improved - something like handling TILT!

Now if I were to ck-thru and find out the villian only had A2s I might be a little pissed that I didn't put him all-in but if the little turd turned over 3-3 I might be a lot pissed b/c I could have ck it thru and saved my self all those chips. What happened to the "steaming" icon?

I handle tilt a lot better after years of play but there was a time when walls got smashed and computer screens tried to fly!! So when we are dispensing advise to newbies and the less experienanced, shouldn't we old dogs also consul a little caution to not only save or give up a few chips but to avoid tilting and throwing our entire session out the F***** window!!!

Suppose for arguements sake he had the same stack as our hero? Do you value bet now? If your answer is 'NO' then your making your value bet based on his stack size (bluff/semi-bluff) and not on the basis of having the best hand more often than not. If ck-raised, do you now make a crying call or fold? 3 broadway cards to the nut str8, a better 2 pair and don't forget a set possibility. Pressure is now on!!! Maybe a ck-thru was in order! But not if we put the villian all-in?? I question that decision making process!!

Well the difference here is that a mistake is far more costly, i don't think you can even compare the two scenarios as they are completely different.

Suppose you value-bet $3.50 and villain check-raises to $13.50 when he has Top two or better 100% of the time or as bluff of some sort about 20% of the time; and he is calling with any Ace or better and folding 80% of his missed hands/marginal hands. The situation is totally different now that you areboth deep-stacked, and value-betting is no longer profitable. In this case you are not dealing with an effective odds situation anymore because the action is not closed. In this case I would check behind without a better read on the villian, but it doesn't change my feelings on the original example.