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Go Back PokerForums.org > Strategy Discussion > Ring Hand Analysis > AQ 3bet 3way pot with a donkey and an ace

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008, 01:48 PM
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Default AQ 3bet 3way pot with a donkey and an ace

BB is 30/10/2, not a great player. he doesn't seem to understand position very well, calls 3bets a bit light. he's not crazy but not exactly a genius.
BTN is 83/10/2, a complete tard who calls anything pre and seems to make weird ass bets with all sorts of stuff.

I've been aggro but nothing crazy, I've had AA/KK/QQ about 1996238422 times but anything I've shown down has, for the most part, been good.

I have no clue how to play this hand, none at all. Comments/help on all streets please.

Fold pre? 4bet?

If I'm calling preflop I can't fold the flop, and imo the turn bet is so weak I can't fold to that. If anything its BBs call that worries me.

River the odds I'm getting are nice but there's no way my AQ can be good right?

I don't usually take the uber passive line but really didn't know what to do so just went with the flow. I'm starting to think 4bet or fold preflop...

$0.50/$1 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight | fold when you know you're beat (BETA)

Stacks:
UTG ($39.90)
Hero ($109.15)
BTN ($105.25)
SB ($52.35)
BB ($231.95)

Pre-flop: ($1.5, 5 players) Hero is CO
1 fold, Hero bets $3.50, BTN calls $3.50, 1 fold, BB bets $11, Hero calls $8.50, BTN calls $8.50.

Flop: ($36.5, 3 players)
BB bets $18, Hero calls $18, BTN calls $18.

Turn: ($90.5, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, BTN bets $25, BB calls $25, Hero calls $25.

River: ($165.5, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, BTN goes all-in $50.25, BB calls $50.25, Hero folds

Final Pot: $266
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008, 02:18 PM
Mike McDermott
 
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Yeah pre flop really is a fold, BB's PFR of 10 means we are absolutely crushed by his 3betting range. Also we don't close the betting and are going to be in the worst relative position against the PF raiser.

Please don't ever 4bet here with anything besides KK+/AK

Flop is standard

I like leading the turn when BB checks. We are very likely ahead of him now and BTN is calling us down with any ace, I think we're comfortably ahead of his range.

Letting BTN make one of his "strange" bets isn't a bad idea but I prefer value towning OOP.

You have to call the $25 bet on the turn

River we only need to be good about 15% of the time, I call but am uncomfortable about it. BB really doesn't need to worry about the 4x hands so if he really has just slowed down with AK then it's tough shit!
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Old 02-28-2008, 02:24 PM
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Given how lost I was postflop I'm starting to agree with folding pre!
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Old 02-28-2008, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidab157 View Post
Given how lost I was postflop I'm starting to agree with folding pre!
If he 3bets with half of his raising range this is the sort of shape you're in.


Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

85,615,200 games 0.005 secs 17,123,040,000 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 37.715% 34.97% 02.74% 29943789 2346256.50 { AsQd }
Hand 1: 62.285% 59.54% 02.74% 50978898 2346256.50 { 99+, AJs+, KQs, AKo }


If we change it to what I think is more likely:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

51,369,120 games 0.005 secs 10,273,824,000 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 28.151% 27.02% 01.14% 13877878 583187.50 { AsQd }
Hand 1: 71.849% 70.71% 01.14% 36324867 583187.50 { JJ+, AKs, AKo }
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Old 02-28-2008, 04:27 PM
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I fold or 4bet pre but I think we should be calling a certian % of the time here with AQ/AK in pos. and would be interested to see whether someone like TA/squeezy does here.

EDIT: Yeah I fold vs 30/10. How do we play against a 30/18 though.
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Old 02-28-2008, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidab157 View Post
Given how lost I was postflop I'm starting to agree with folding pre!
I think I fold this preflop solely because I don't want to have a difficult decision to make when the board comes.
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:56 PM
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My first instinct is to fold to the 3bet against that villain.
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Old 02-29-2008, 12:17 AM
Mike McDermott
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WotaWaster View Post
I fold or 4bet pre but I think we should be calling a certian % of the time here with AQ/AK in pos. and would be interested to see whether someone like TA/squeezy does here.

EDIT: Yeah I fold vs 30/10. How do we play against a 30/18 though.
But we have the worst relative position here against the 3bettor. With BTN out of the hand, sure we can call sometimes.
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Old 03-01-2008, 07:50 AM
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fold preflop. AQ here is a trouble hand IMO. Against a guy like that, a reraise is a fold to me. Maybe we beat BB on the flop if he has KK and QQ, but let's not forget the button here...

By that, I mean on the flop, considering the stack of the button, we have to think in advance if we are going all the way (100$ with the hand), and that, right now. Is our hand strong enuff against 2 opponents ?

He bets 18$, I think the call here is allright on the flop, but on the turn, it's a fold again : stack sizes. If we call the 25$ bet on the turn, we can be fairly sure button is all in on the river especially with those weird betting patterns. So I fold the turn here with another player in the pot (the BB).

If I had to take a guess, I'd but BB on QQ or KK (more QQ, but it don't matter here), and btn on 44 / xh4h / busted flush draw

So to go all the way, we have to have a super read here, that our ace is good against BB and that btn missed his flush draw and made a dumb ass move. But a calling station don't make wild bluffs usually (but you say this one does weird stuff so...). Usually they just call / fold / bet a very storng hand. So I'd fold on the turn here because I think I can't beat btn here even if I can't put him on an EXACT hand (he might have 2 pairs, or such).

In your case, I fold the river

Last edited by mister.x; 03-01-2008 at 07:52 AM.
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