SB is 18/14/2, seems fairly solid and I haven't seen anything too crazy from him yet. CO is a bit weird, no stats on him yet but I've seen some big raises and some small ones, but with no showdowns. I'm not exactly pegging him for a great player.

Preflop, good? To coin my favourite phrase would 4betting this be turning my hand into a little bit of a bluff?

Postflop, does SB ever lead this flop with anything other than KK/AA (or a set I suppose but that would be strange pf play)?

$0.50/$1 No Limit Holdem
5 players
Converted at weaktight | fold when you know you're beat (BETA)

Stacks:
UTG ($11.50)
CO ($92.75)
BTN ($58.25)
SB ($102.75)
Hero ($100.00)

Pre-flop: ($1.5, 5 players) Hero is BB
1 fold, CO bets $2, BTN calls $2, SB bets $11, Hero calls $10.50, CO calls $9.50, BTN folds

Flop: ($36.5, 3 players)
SB bets $30, Hero ???

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I think 4-betting or not depends on how often the CO steals but I like playing QQ for set value here and calling.

Post-flop I dunno; I fail at post-flop play.

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All in. Only AA and KK beat us here, tie with QQ

PF smells a little odd by him. It's almost like he's trying to isolate the minbettor with TT/JJ, with a larger than normal 3 bet. I don't mind a raise here, you are most certainly ahead or 50/50 a lot of the time, and you'll soon get told if you are behind. I'm not sure how often you'll be called with weaker hands though, and keeping them in isn't too bad I guess.

On the flop, I doubt very much he's given you much credit for being better off than JJ or TT, so I think he'd lead out here for protection against AQ/AK type hands, and for value with JJ+. unfortunately a set is pretty possible as he probably cbets a lot, and may think this looks like a standard cbet even though he has the nutz. Given it's such a dry board I think you have so much fold equity with a shove, but I would be a little worried that he's hit the nutz or even that CO has hit a set.

If we were to think we are ahead quite a lot, I'm not sure whether a call to trap him is better than a shove. It just might mean he actually follows up with JJ again on the turn.

Either a shove, or a call with the intention of getting it in on the turn for me.

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Could well be a set mate, you're right.

4bet PF

As played please shove the flop

I'm a weak-tight full ring nit and even I think playing QQ for set value here is terrible.

Whether you 4bet preflop or call to shove this flop is up for debate but you have to do 1 or the other.

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I completely disagree with shoving this flop. I think it's terrible.

What worse hands EVER call a shove on the flop? What better hands EVER fold? The SB is a reasonable player, no way is he calling a shove with JJ after I cold call the 3bet pre and shove the flop, with another player to act behind (and after he has led big into 3 people I should add).

My reasoning for calling pre, I was expecting mostly to get a HU pot where I would probably get the money in on a non ace or king flop. When the minraiser calls and SB still bets into us, I'm never expecting to be good.

4betting pre, yeah I don't mind it too much but I don't think calling is bad either. I would prefer the 3bettor to be a little looser as his 3bet OOP against a pretty much unknown (well for me anyway) screams a decent hand. I really don't think he does this with 44/22, maybe 77 sometimes but it's hardly standard to be popping small pairs OOP against an unknown minraiser.

Wota, HU I would agree with calling to shove the flop, but do you seriously still do that when it's 3way and the 3bettor is still quite happy to stick the money in?

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I completely misread this hand.
I thought you had opened it to $2 originally from the CO.
Seriously - how about a fold preflop?
If we're calling here with QQ to fold on a low flop we should also be calling with 77 - right?

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Well I was probably going with it if we ended up HU, that's why I didn't muck it preflop.

EDIT: as played though wota, do you agree a flop shove is bad?

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For the love of God look beyond "What worse hands call, what better hands fold". Seriously!

Have you even considered that if your hand is good now then you need to raise for protection? Let's say you call, one other player calls, turn is an Ace or King and SB keeps betting, you obv have to fold and you have lost a lot. Sometimes you have to be content with taking the pot down. Who's to say he doesn't stack off with JJ/TT here? Who's to say he sees you as a solid player? Who's to say he even uses PT to have stats on you? Why would he expect you to be in this hand as played with anything that beats him other than QQ if he holds JJ?

I'm sorry if I sound pissed but it fucks me off how so many people completely disregard the concept of raising for protection.

I don't see why SB needs to have a monster to be 3betting someone who is unknown "to you". I'm sorry mate but that just sounds ridiculous. These guys could have played 10k hands together and he knows a CO open min raise means low pocket pair.


Calling is fine pre flop. 4betting and calling are both ok, I just prefer 4betting. How you can call and consider folding a dream flop like this is beyond me. Like wota said, call and stack off here or fold pre flop.