Dave, you finally drove jh mad.

nh.

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Let's remember I had a REALLY shitty night last night

Meh, your long posts are good - like an anti-squeezy.

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Haha, sp's 1 worders FTW

I still stand by what I said in my post, it wasn't tilt related. The anger may have been, but it's probably just cos it's Dave

I like the thought process generally that if you make a bet you want a worse hand to call or a better hand to fold espeically on later streets, however when the pot gets as big as it is here Jh is right.
If we can put his range squarely as AK/AQ/JJ/TT/bluffs which we beat and AA/KK which beat us and we know he folds 100% TT+ and calls 100% with KK/AA we still have to push as there is $66.50 in that pot and we cant just be passive and let him catch cards for free when he isn't utting another cent into the pot unles he outdraws us.

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Its very close David, I'd like to see his cbet%.
Even if he doesn't ever cbet AK/AQ here we have to think he bets TT/JJ right which puts us flipping against his range.
I also think we have to fear the CO, a player who looks like he plays wierdly is def capable of having KK/AA here, which may tip the balance.

In the heat of battle I also play identically to you, its low variance approach but possibly not highest EV.

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Yes, I agree that it is an extremely important thought process but as you have agreed, it's not the be all and end all.

wow, brutal honesty there jh.

I struggle to see how when I have $11 invested, I shouldn't be thinking about what better hands call and worse fold. All I can do with those stats is try and put myself in his position. My stats are very similar except I'm a little more aggro postflop, and I wouldn't be stacking off TT/JJ, no way. I'm having a set or QQ-AA to lead that flop the way he did. Obviously we can't know everything about how he plays, that's never possible.

Raising for protection, I'm all for. If I play back at him here it's always a shove, cos of course I don't want an over popping out on the turn and if he's not calling a flop shove he's only putting the money in on the turn when he outdraws me. I'm never in a million years flat calling this flop. I never said that, so you may have misunderstood. This is a simple fold/shove spot I think.

Like I've said many times, HU I'm calling pre to shove a non ace/king flop. 3 way, I don't think it's good. The marginal +ev shove against the SB will imo be completely negated by the times that the CO shows up with a set or AA/KK.

fwiw I folded, I know the results (which made me laugh btw) but obv I shouldn't be concentrating on them too much.

EDIT: I don't have the cbet % on my HUD cos there's not enough space as I'm using minitables. and i can't click the name to get the rest of the stats cos they're in funny positions due to the minitable gayness.

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The fact that you didn't get a HU pot is an argument for folding pre flop. I'm not just looking at results but it just highlights the fact that we have to take care when we aren't closing the action.

It is a pretty nothing flop, I don't know why SB can't lead with a wider range than set/QQ+. And like I said before, logically the only hand you should have that has him beat is QQ (if he holds JJ). You're talking about putting yourself in his shoes, do you really think you're behind against BB if you have Jacks or Tens? If BB has a set then he has made a mistake pre flop anyway by calling without set odds and without closing the action so we should stack off against 22/44/77 (which are highly unlikely anyway).

Not getting a HU pot is a worry but I would counter that argument with the fact that he's less likely to lead a wide range in a 3way pot than HU. So I figure not to be bluffed off too much or put in the awkward situation where he leads, I shove and CO calls. I think there is a good chance of seeing a free turn and catching some bluffs then.

I've got stats on him, a fair few hands as well. I'd imagine he's solid, he was multitabling at the time. I would be fairly certain he runs PT with a HUD and so will see me as a reasonably solid grinder (maybe, lol). If I'm in his spot and get a cold call of my 3bet from a solid grinder it really puts the shits up me. I'd instantly think a big pair or MAYBE AQ at a push. For that reason I'm much less likely to cbet the flop 3way (we can't ignore the fact CO can show up with a hand), I'd excercise a bit of pot control.

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