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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2007, 01:06 PM
River Rat
 
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Default NL25 JJ OOP

Villain is very loose pre flop and likes to raise in position A LOT. He's also a calling station, who I've had trouble shaking off post flop when in position myself, which is why I called rather than raising. Probably not the best move here with a near monster hand.

The flop bet was so low that I figured I had odds to call looking for the J.

River is both brilliant and horrible at the same time, as he needs only a King.

Donkish to call this?

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No Limit Holdem Ring game
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Stack sizes:
UTG: $46.80
CO: $54.75
Button: $26.15
SB: $21.35
Hero: $23.20

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is BB with
2 folds, Button calls, SB raises to $1, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: ($3, 3 players)
SB bets $0.5, Hero calls, Button folds.

Turn: ($4, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($4, 2 players)
SB bets $5, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: $14
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2007, 03:05 PM
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Re-raise PF and you will have control of the hand instead of him. A loose player 5-handed will raise with almost anything, so JJ is miles ahead of his range. When he bets 50c into a $3 pot, he most likely has a draw (donks usually aren't clever enough to do this with a set or two pair). Make a pot-size-ish raise. If he calls, slow down (check) if the turn completes any draw (as it did here). I'm inclined to fold the river because his play really really looks to me like he has the K. From his play I say he has KT/KJ. He is probably overbetting the river because he thinks you have AQ/AJ/AT or a set. He would not overbet the pot if he DIDN'T have the K because there was no indication from you that you could not have one as well, you simply called the entire way through. Be more aggressive with big hands against loose players, you are ahead of them a huge percentage of the time.

As played I fold the river, you have only invested $1.50 and like I said above, it would take balls of steel and a brain of mush to overbet without the K here. He made that bet hoping you had a big 2nd-best hand, and it turns out you did.

Last edited by azeldin; 12-12-2007 at 03:07 PM.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2007, 04:05 PM
WotaWaster's Avatar
Mike McDermott
 
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Any reason for no PF reraise? Reraise should be standard here.

I fold river.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12-12-2007, 09:30 PM
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If he's a loose station you have to reraise pf, no reason not to imo.

As played I fold the river.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-13-2007, 12:30 AM
Mike McDermott
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sb944 View Post

The flop bet was so low that I figured I had odds to call looking for the J.

River is both brilliant and horrible at the same time, as he needs only a King.

Donkish to call this?
7-1 for a 19-1 chance is not even close to odds to call, sorry.

Yeah, fold river

azeldin - donks aren't clever enough to bet $0.50 in to $3 on this flop with 2 pair+? please explain your thought process behind this statement
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LOL. David "Double Barell" ab157 says check. Check it is.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-13-2007, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jharding666 View Post
7-1 for a 19-1 chance is not even close to odds to call, sorry.

Yeah, fold river

azeldin - donks aren't clever enough to bet $0.50 in to $3 on this flop with 2 pair+? please explain your thought process behind this statement
To make it look like they're on a draw and induce a raise or bluff so that they can reraise or call and allow opponent to continue firing.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12-13-2007, 01:03 AM
Mike McDermott
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azeldin View Post
To make it look like they're on a draw and induce a raise or bluff so that they can reraise or call and allow opponent to continue firing.
I see what you're saying but at nl25 I think a clever player knows that his opponents aren't thinking about our range.
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LOL. David "Double Barell" ab157 says check. Check it is.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12-13-2007, 05:37 AM
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Mike McDermott
 
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Yeah azeldin there is nothing clever about minbetting on a AQ3 flop with 2 hearts when you have a set or 2 pair. It is actually incredibly donkish and screams that you hit the flop whilst encouraging people to call with a draw and stack you if they hit.
Most players at NL25 are loose-passive so min betting big hands is a big leak as we rarely induce bluff raises and don't get correct value from weak draws/weak top pairs that call big bets on every street.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 12-13-2007, 09:54 AM
River Rat
 
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JJ is a decent hand to re-raise here, and I think that's the right decision. You are making him/them pay for A7s if the flop doesn't deliver an ace, or taking an easy pot right there. My thoughts have been something like, if I am called and A or K or Q hits the board (or worse the A and Q here), I have real trouble cbetting the required amount, which would now be about $7 knowing I may be way behind now. If I simply call the PF, I can get away from the hand cheaply if these cards appear, or try to build a pot if the flop is kinder to me.

As it is, nobody can see him not having a king here, well he didn't

That isn't to say it's not a VERY donkish to call in this situation.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 12-13-2007, 12:26 PM
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Wow he did that with 2 pair on that board? and not even top 2. yeeeeeehaw, make sure to put him on your donk list!!
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