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Go Back PokerForums.org > Strategy Discussion > Ring Hand Analysis > NL10 KK good board, flush on the river

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-27-2007, 11:25 PM
River Rat
 
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Default NL10 KK good board, flush on the river

I know next nothing about this guy, but have seen him over-active, betting and calling big bets in the lead up hands to me entering the table, and assume by his stack he's hitting a lot of hands and drawing people in who think he's bluffing.

Any problems with this until the turn? Do I check or push when a flush completes with such a calling machine here?

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No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.05/$0.10
5 players
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Stack sizes:
UTG: $7.65
CO: $8.80
Button: $29.80
Hero: $9.90
BB: $25.00

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is SB with
UTG calls, CO folds, Button calls, Hero raises to $0.4, BB calls, UTG folds, Button calls.

Flop: ($1.3, 3 players)
Hero bets $1, BB folds, Button calls.

Turn: ($3.3, 2 players)
Hero bets $3.5, Button calls.

River: ($10.3, 2 players)
[color=#cc0000]Hero ???
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-28-2007, 12:06 AM
azeldin's Avatar
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Shove, he may be calling with a pair of 5's, 8's or 9's or maybe even another pocket pair. Calling stations like this often call everything down if they hit ANY piece of the board in case people are betting with AK on a missed board.

One suggestion I want to make is raise more PF. With 2 limpers in front of you, 4bb is pointless, they are getting decent odds to call especially when they have position on you. I use a rule of (4bb + 2bb/limper) i.e. if there are 2 limpers, I am raising it to 8bb.

Last edited by azeldin; 11-28-2007 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 11-28-2007, 12:16 AM
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With the pot compared to your stack shoving isnt as bad unless your deep but is still bad. All you have here is a pair on a board that has both made the straight draw and flush draw. I usually C/C here, and raise more pf.

Last edited by FaDi; 11-28-2007 at 12:22 AM.
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Old 11-28-2007, 01:36 AM
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Fadi, c/c here is bad because it allows him to get maximum value from you when he does have the flush while also letting him see a showdown with a marginal hand that might have called a bet, A8 or whatever. it's pretty likely given the size of stacks remaining and the size of the pot that any bet he makes will be a shove anyway, so as long as the money's going in no matter what, it is waaaaaaaay way better to shove initially.

the hand was played fine up til the river, now shove. it's not close at all
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Old 11-28-2007, 01:51 AM
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if their stacks were both 200+ bb this would be a C/F right?

Last edited by FaDi; 11-28-2007 at 01:54 AM.
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Old 11-28-2007, 02:35 AM
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meh, there's a little bit of value left there, i think if stacks were deeper b/f would be the optimal line
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Old 11-28-2007, 12:43 PM
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He has $5 left and pot is $10.30. Shoving is infinitely better than check-calling for the reasons Squeezy gives.
We get called by tons of wekaer hands which check behind.

Assuming he had flush draw:
Infact this guy called $3.50 on turn to win the $6.80 in pot plus your $5 more for a total of $11.80. You know you have so assuming he is drawing to a flush he has only 8 hearts from 44 unseen cards to win the pot on river. This means he hits his flush 1/5.5 times and requires 4.5-1 on his money to make the turn call breakeven. He got about 3.5-1 so his play was -Ev even if you paid him off when he hit a flush.

(Edited as Maths was wrong)
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Last edited by WotaWaster; 11-28-2007 at 12:48 PM.
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Old 11-28-2007, 04:02 PM
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I shoved, he called with and I lost my stack.

Fortunately though, I had good position on him and started to raise his limps a lot, getting a couple of dollars back through forcing him to fold PF and flop. And when he finally called me down? I had QQ he had A2, he called my $2 re-raise of his $0.30 bet, flop came in 862r, he bet $15, I gladly called He still had a decent stack but left the table.

So all up this guy was very profitable for me, in a very short period of time.
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Old 11-28-2007, 05:27 PM
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Raise more pf. 4bb+1 per limper is fine but I like to add a bb or 2 when I'm in the blinds and therefore OOP. So 70c or 80c maybe here.

As played, yeah wota and squeezy nail it. Just shove.
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