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Go Back PokerForums.org > Strategy Discussion > Ring Hand Analysis > $200NL 200bb deep - flame away

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Old 11-02-2007, 10:47 PM
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Default $200NL 200bb deep - flame away

This is quite possibly the worst hand of poker I have played this year.
I am embaraseed to even pst it but I will try to take you through my thought process:

Poker Room skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $223.50
UTG+1: $291.80
MP1: $191.70
MP2: $192.60
CO: $208.80
Button: $478.00
SB: $75.05
Wota: $411.00

Pre-flop: (8 players) Wota is BB with
5 folds, Button raises to $8, SB folds, Wota raises to $26, Button calls.

Guy had attempt to steal of 25% or so, Aj way ahead of that range so easy 3bet.

Flop: ($53, 2 players)
Wota checks, Button checks.

Dam we're 200bb deep maybe I shouldn't have 3bet Ajo I check.

Turn: ($53, 2 players)
Wota bets $35 Hmm actually given how deep we are he can call to set mine so I probably should have bet, oh well I'll bet now instead, Button raises to $90, Wota raises to $235 Obviously based on a few datamined hands and no history I know he thinks I'm bluffing and wants to rebluff so I'm gonna reraise him , Button raises all-in $360, Wota calls all-in $148. Goddamit I'm going all in. Drawing to 3 outs for the chop in a 400bb pot? Nh Wota.
Uncalled bets: $148 returned to Wota.

River: ($648, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $773)


Results:
Final pot: $648
Button shows QD JD
Wota shows AH JC
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Old 11-02-2007, 10:57 PM
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Default

Disclaimer: i havent a clue what im talking about.

this hand surprises me and not just cos u didnt suck out obv

and once more, im in all kinds of trouble if this 18th level thinking is what nl is all about.

as played, at what point should/would the real Wota have let this go? his turn raise? call his turn raise and either donk/muck the river?

nl is sooooo confusing
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Old 11-02-2007, 11:46 PM
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WTF?? Holy hell. I thought I play some hands bad.....


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Old 11-02-2007, 11:56 PM
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i counted six levels of thinking
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Old 11-03-2007, 12:13 AM
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Default

I have started going to the gym this week and it has left me constantly exhausted and down $600 in the last few days. This is how I would have played the hand on all streets had I have been thinking straight.

Villain is playing 15/10/3 I think which is relatively LAG at full ring, his attempt to steal blinds is 25% which means he is raising 25% of hands when folded to him on the cutoff or button such as in this spot.
This means I can reraise Ajo for value as it is ahead of his range. I expect to take the pot down a large amount preflop and an A/J on the flop will be good more often than not if I am called. I think I would rather not 3bet this hand 200bb deep since it is a marginal hand really and I will be OOP in a multistreet pot, I also should have made the 3bet a little bigger given that I will be OOP and the stacks are deep. $30 probably would be better.

On the flop. In a 100bb pot I am reluctant to cbet when I miss since if someone is putting 1/8th of their stack in preflop they are not likely to be playing a speculative hand hoping to hit a set and if they do have 99/77 they are not always going to fold on a T82 flop for example. However, given it is 200bb deep and he has put in 1/16th of his stack only, the likelihood he is playing a more speculative hand hoping to hit the flop increases and the likelihood he will want to call a flop bet so deep with 99/77 and possibly face more barells on later streets decreases. This means a cbet would have had a +EV against his range imo.

Having checked flop I would probably check-call turn and then check-call a 7 or Q river.
I think alot of the more aggro players would leada picked up Open ended draw but I am weak-tight.
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Old 11-03-2007, 05:01 PM
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Bet/fold turn, we don't have the implied odds to chase a straight.

I agree that the 3bet PF isn't great but it's not that bad.

Flop I like betting for the reasons you gave.
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Old 11-04-2007, 12:13 PM
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Default

I think 3bet pf is fine but I would've made it bigger like you said.

Flop I am mostly betting. As much as I know you don't like cbetting 3bet pots, we have to do it sometimes without the big hand otherwise it gets far too predictable when we hit a monster. Also I think the 200bb stacks will work to your advantage and I'm more likely to bet it in this spot. As you said, he's more likely to be calling pf with marginal hands given the stacks and you aren't risking committing yourself just yet like you would do with 100bb stacks. Also the threat of betting further streets should well make him lay down 99 type hands enough imo.

Turn is a huge spew imo. I'm check-calling.
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