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09-09-2007, 02:46 AM
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Mike McDermott
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 4,443
Limits Played: $1-$2 NL
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50nl - 4bet bluffing, do we like?
villain is 18/9/4 over about 250 hands and seems a pretty standard TAG (with a slightly low PFR).
Your thoughts?
Game #5479209874: Hold'em NL ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/09/08 - 23:22:45 (CET)
Seat 1: PiTE16 ($76.20 in chips)
Seat 2: Filajvie ($106.60 in chips)
Seat 3: Yatzy ($20.15 in chips)
Seat 4: reADY84 ($50 in chips)
Seat 5: Hero ($56.80 in chips)
Seat 6: _ILF_ ($68.50 in chips)
_ILF_: posts small blind $0.25
PiTE16: posts big blind $0.50
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Hero [A ♦ T ♦]
Filajvie: folds
Yatzy: folds
Hero: raises to $2
_ILF_: raises to $6
PiTE16: folds
Hero: raises to $22
_ILF_: calls $16
----- FLOP ----- [7 ♦ 9 ♥ 4♣[/color]]
_ILF_: checks
Hero: bets $34.80 and is all-in
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by WotaWaster
LOL. David "Double Barell" ab157 says check. Check it is.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WotaWaster
Brag: I cashed out $25k into a $ based bank account and have been to lazy to change it into £'s and earned hundreds of pounds through my laziness.
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09-09-2007, 02:58 AM
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Stu Ungar
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,095
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What are you expecting from him? He's not set mining with TT+ (excluding KK/AA) and folding when he misses flop with no overcards. Only thing that's folding here is AK right?
I don't understand this sorry...
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09-09-2007, 03:53 AM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 7,113
Limits Played: $0.50-$1 NL
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I don't like it.
I doubt you're getting an overpair to fold here enough of the time.
Also his pfr is a bit low for me to expect him to be 3betting light. I'm not sure I put in the 4bet against this guy without a solid hand, or a solid read that he IS 3betting light.
__________________
For Free Money, Rakeback and some 6x Ongame bonuses, I recommend PokerSource.
I recommend Cardrunners for superb poker coaching. It was honestly the single biggest improvement in my game signing up there! Sign-up fee might seem steep, but it pays itself back within weeks.
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09-09-2007, 04:25 AM
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Mike McDermott
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 4,443
Limits Played: $1-$2 NL
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Considering my PFR is about 12, his re stealing range can't be that much narrower than mine.
Obviously this play is player dependent but I was very confident that he would fold TT-QQ here.
Obv he also folds AK if he is retarded enough to call a 4bet with it.
Far too many online players think a 4bet always has to be AA (and occasionally KK) and I think we can exploit this weakness by 4betting light. It will increase variance but I also think it will substantially increase win rates.
If anyone is interested, take a look at this link on 4betting
http://www.cardrunners.com/fusetalk/...9847&catid=121
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by WotaWaster
LOL. David "Double Barell" ab157 says check. Check it is.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WotaWaster
Brag: I cashed out $25k into a $ based bank account and have been to lazy to change it into £'s and earned hundreds of pounds through my laziness.
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09-09-2007, 04:26 AM
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Chaser
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 192
Limits Played: $0.50-$1 NL
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I think you gotta give it up on the flop.... just my thoughts
__________________
"Kids these days, they get dealt AK and think they already won the pot"
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09-09-2007, 05:36 AM
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PokerForums God
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Luton, England
Posts: 5,015
Limits Played: $2-$4 NL
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18/9 player isn't a good candidate. He probably opens alot from LP so may almost never 3bet and his range here could literally be JJ+ and AK.
Prefer this move against a 20/16 player who we have seen 3bet several times already.
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09-09-2007, 05:43 AM
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Fish
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 72
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i wouldnt do it without any history or reads.
He may be a tag, but i'm not so sure he is folding even JJ or QQ on this flop. There are many tags who cant fold an overpair to the board.
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09-09-2007, 07:48 AM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 7,113
Limits Played: $0.50-$1 NL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jharding666
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I think if I ever try and play like cts, I will go broke within 4.3 seconds.
__________________
For Free Money, Rakeback and some 6x Ongame bonuses, I recommend PokerSource.
I recommend Cardrunners for superb poker coaching. It was honestly the single biggest improvement in my game signing up there! Sign-up fee might seem steep, but it pays itself back within weeks.
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09-09-2007, 02:21 PM
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Poker Professional
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,695
Limits Played: $2-$4 NL
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CR members are fucking nuts. 
__________________
AsuitedKing: justify the call
EhRa: he hits his set und waited that i hitz something and he dindt play he only goes allin
EhRa: tahts a big donk ... so ****
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09-09-2007, 07:04 PM
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Stu Ungar
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,095
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I thought about this hand a lot last night... here's a quick summary
-Why is villian calling the 4bet pf? What's his plan for the flop? He can't be purely set mining planning to c/f with TT-QQ because he's risking 44bb to win 200 assuming both stacks are going all in on any flop, so he's getting paid less than 5:1 with 7.5:1 odds for a set... absolute spew.
-Assuming he's seen you 4bet bluff or at least concludes that you're doing it, why can't he 5bet shove profitably against your range, assuming trash like A8s is in your range as in the cardrunners article?
-What happens when you villian calls the 4bet OOP pf and shoves the flop at you, leaving you caught red handed with fuck all on a ragged flop? You've basically donated half your stack?
Blah.. I wanna understand this.
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