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12-20-2006, 09:25 AM
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Stu Ungar
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,404
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At which point should I have folded this hand?
And yes, I realise I donked it pretty badly.
I almost folded it PF figuring the original raiser had a big pair.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed)
CO ($85.55)
Button ($77.05)
SB ($39)
BB ($94)
UTG ($84.30)
UTG+1 ($97.50)
MP1 ($32.50)
MP2 ($117.75)
Hero ($100.85)
Preflop: Hero is MP3 with  ,  .
UTG calls $1, UTG+1 raises to $6, 2 folds, Hero calls $6, 4 folds, UTG calls $5.
Flop: ($19.50)  ,  , (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $10, Hero calls $10, UTG calls $10.
Turn: ($49.50) (3 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 bets $15, Hero calls $15, UTG calls $15.
River: ($94.50) (3 players)
UTG bets $53.3 (All-In), UTG+1 folds, Hero folds.
Final Pot: $147.80
Results in white below:
UTG doesn't show.
Outcome: UTG wins $147.80.
Last edited by Mr.McJ; 12-20-2006 at 09:27 AM.
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12-20-2006, 09:42 AM
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Mike McDermott
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Luton, England
Posts: 4,828
Limits Played: $2-$4 NL
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This is one of those horrible hands where pot odds and small bets keep you in.
I think you almost have to call/raise that small flop bet with 4 outs to straight plus the chance raiser has AK or even can laydown an overpair on that board if raised.
Having called I would let it go on the turn once the other player has overcalled and the raiser still comes out betting.
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12-20-2006, 11:30 AM
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Mike McDermott
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,159
Limits Played: Play Money
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im never folding this preflop to this action ever.
he could have 88, 99, high cards, you might be ahead.
he could have a bigger pair, and will probably stack off on a T high flop.
however i don't really like calling down here... Just folding the flop is fine imo, you are in a multi way pot and could easily be behind here. if this is the type of player that might bet here with air, then think of it this way.
rather than calling down a $10 and $15 bet, why not make like a $25 raise on the flop. this way you lose the same amount when behind, but have the chance to take the pot down on the flop. IMO I would fold, but if I had to play the hand I think I prefer a raise on this flop. or, a fold on the turn. I dunno I just hate calling down....
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12-20-2006, 11:37 AM
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Stu Ungar
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tightagressive
rather than calling down a $10 and $15 bet, why not make like a $25 raise on the flop. this way you lose the same amount when behind, but have the chance to take the pot down on the flop. IMO I would fold, but if I had to play the hand I think I prefer a raise on this flop. or, a fold on the turn. I dunno I just hate calling down....
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Raising the flop crossed my mind and is something I would normally do. In this case though I thought that if I raised, there's a good chance that my opponent would re-raise me out of the pot with a lot of hands (ie any overpair) and in this case I don't mind seeing the turn. Ideally I was hoping that the original raiser would check to me on the turn and I could take it down then with a decent sized bet. I was also prepared to bet/raise a lot of scare cards on the turn.
Obviously the call from UTG changed my plans a little and in hindsight I think you and Wota are right, I should have folded the turn.
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12-20-2006, 12:40 PM
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Poker Expert
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Atlantic City bwo Wilmington DE
Posts: 1,356
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Forgive my ignorance but you have $31 in the pot and rivered a straight. Why not call the river?
__________________
SnG Record
34 Entries
17 Cashes
6 1sts
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12-20-2006, 12:46 PM
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Stu Ungar
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loz
Forgive my ignorance but you have $31 in the pot and rivered a straight. Why not call the river?
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UTG insta pushed. He can beat a straight.....which is why I should have folded the turn. I could have saved $15 if I had realised it sooner.
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12-20-2006, 01:03 PM
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Stu Ungar
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: USA - VA
Posts: 2,271
Limits Played: $0.05-$0.10 NL
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i think utg+1 may have a pair of 9s , jack 10 or an over pair to the board ..anyone agree?
__________________
Quote:
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tEh_R3aLde4L [observer]: WHAT WERE YOUR HOLDINGS tEh_R3aLde4L [observer]: TWOGOF tEh_R3aLde4L [observer]: WHAT WERRE YOUR POCKET CARDS
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12-20-2006, 01:19 PM
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Poker Expert
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Atlantic City bwo Wilmington DE
Posts: 1,356
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Well my ring game play isn't the best but depending on the player I am considering being up against AA, or KK, and since he is continual betting I am doubting the flush. Could be a boat but then again it could also not be a boat.
If I called to the river I would of called the river. You are calling to catch a 9 there it is. You paid for it. Probably a good fold but I'm playing the card I paid for.
At first I was trying to see why people were saying raise on the flop. I see now, because if you do that you can eliminate the flush posibilities. Now you have to worry about the flush and the boat on the river.
I learned something here. Nice. 
__________________
SnG Record
34 Entries
17 Cashes
6 1sts
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12-20-2006, 01:31 PM
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Stu Ungar
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 2,404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loz
Well my ring game play isn't the best but depending on the player I am considering being up against AA, or KK, and since he is continual betting I am doubting the flush. Could be a boat but then again it could also not be a boat.
If I called to the river I would of called the river. You are calling to catch a 9 there it is. You paid for it. Probably a good fold but I'm playing the card I paid for.
At first I was trying to see why people were saying raise on the flop. I see now, because if you do that you can eliminate the flush posibilities. Now you have to worry about the flush and the boat on the river.
I learned something here. Nice. 
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I think you misread the hand. UTG+1 is the one who is continually betting. UTG is just calling him down and then suddenly insta-pushes the river. Heads up vs UTG+1, I'm calling on this river for sure but there is no way I can beat UTG.
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12-20-2006, 01:36 PM
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Mike McDermott
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Luton, England
Posts: 4,828
Limits Played: $2-$4 NL
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Either he hit his flush or he is hoping someone else did.
I think a straight loses here 90% of the time.
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