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Go Back PokerForums.org > Strategy Discussion > Ring Hand Analysis > Flop a set, shitty turn card... call or fold?

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-04-2006, 04:56 AM
Eclipse86's Avatar
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Default Flop a set, shitty turn card... call or fold?

No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
7 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Seat 1 : Hero has $330.75
Seat 2 : Villian has $304.79
Seat 3 : kobylasry has $85
Seat 4 : Davec55 has $177
Seat 5 : chosun123 has $213.50
Seat 6 : FINALE has $69
Seat 7 : perssonj has $155.26

Pre-flop: (7 players) Hero is UTG+1 with
I limp in EP with 77, Villain raises to $6, folds to me and I call.

Flop: ($18, 2 players)
I check, Villian bets $10, I raise it to $35.55, Villian calls.

Turn: ($87, 2 players)
Hero bets $64.55, Villian goes all-in for $261.24, Hero ???????.

both me and villian are pretty deep stacked, so this hand caused me quite some pain and suffering lol


Also, do you guys play this turn any differently?

Last edited by Eclipse86; 12-04-2006 at 04:59 AM.
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Old 12-04-2006, 06:01 AM
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Ouch. Thats a tough one.
Any read on the villain at all?
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Old 12-04-2006, 07:19 AM
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I would like to know what you guys think of this play but it is pretty much my standard line.

I would check.

Alot of villains will check flush behind hoping you will bet turn or at least call bet on river and so give you free chance to boat up.

If he bets maybe 1/2 - 2/3 pot then you will have odds to draw to full house, very few players can fold a flush to a large river bet heads up if board pairs (except maybe if he has very low flush).

If he hasnt made flush and you check again on river, he may bluff at the pot figuring the diamond scared you.

Only drawback here is when a 4th diamond falls on river and you lose to 22 with 2 of diamonds.

Thoughts?
EDIT: As played it is a definite fold on turn. Maybe QQ is a tough decision but I think at worst he should have a higher set unless you have a read he's a total donk.
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Old 12-04-2006, 09:46 AM
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For that big of a raise on the turn after you have played the hand as strong as you did, there are very few hands he could have that you can beat, and even those hands (AA, KK) would most likely have a high diamond in them. The fold is the safe play, and most likely the correct play.

Also I see nothing wrong with betting out on the turn, because it allows you to find out where you are at in the hand, and he lets you know that you are beat. If you had check called then you are just getting yourself in trouble on the river if the board doesn't pair.
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Old 12-04-2006, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WotaWaster View Post
I would like to know what you guys think of this play but it is pretty much my standard line.

I would check.

Alot of villains will check flush behind hoping you will bet turn or at least call bet on river and so give you free chance to boat up.

If he bets maybe 1/2 - 2/3 pot then you will have odds to draw to full house, very few players can fold a flush to a large river bet heads up if board pairs (except maybe if he has very low flush).

If he hasnt made flush and you check again on river, he may bluff at the pot figuring the diamond scared you.

Only drawback here is when a 4th diamond falls on river and you lose to 22 with 2 of diamonds.

Thoughts?
yeah, that was the other line i was considering taking. looking back, checking and re-evaluating the turn would be alot better line here, cuz im keeping the pot smaller and also giving villian a chance to bluff a weaker hand. In retrospect, I think betting the turn on my part was kinda donkish, cuz its only really going to get called/raised by the flush.

In fact, I have no idea why I even bet the turn.. Cuz if the positions were reversed (e.g. Villian bets flop, I raise, he flat calls.. then FD completes on turn and he checks to me) the normal line I would take there would be to check behind on the turn and flat call the river. Just that I've never really been in these types of situations before, so when I did happen to get in one, I was kinda dumbfounded as to what to do. So in hindsight, I really should have checked and re-evaluated.
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Old 12-04-2006, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.McJ View Post
Ouch. Thats a tough one.
Any read on the villain at all?
nope no reads on him, nor stats.
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Old 12-04-2006, 04:17 PM
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Check/evaluate is the standard play, but you're usually calling him.

I'd call this. It not an easy. You're getting better than 3:2 with 11 outs if he has the flush.

This is a great card for him to bluff at and if he's bad-bluffy, I'm insta-calling because we'd've been all-in on the flop if he had an A/K hi flush draw. If he's at all sensible, not really loose/tight, when you're best he has 9-12 outs. If this is the type he is then QT/78, but that makes the PF action weird.

No reads, I'd fold about 70% of the time and make a crying call about 30% of the time. The biggest reason for folding, IMO is that you played the flop/turn like a big diamond draw or a set and that doesn't seem to fade him. Thsi hand really depends on the opponent and how much of an idiot he is.
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Old 12-05-2006, 09:07 AM
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What is your BR? 30% or less of my BR I am calling.
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Old 12-05-2006, 04:09 PM
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im folding.

his flop bet may be beefing up a pot for his flush draw

doubt hed call the c/r with gutshot
he'd prolly repop you on flop if he had set

looks like he either has a flush, or is playing a decent hand poorly (like two pair, TP etc..) or his bluffing. Maybe if he is a lag, he cbet with wide range, and then floats your c/r with intent to bluff latter on, so I guess in that case he could have hit strait.

I mainly fold this b/c it will be a 600$ pot.

If he had like 150$ behind, id instacall, but that extra hundred really means you gotta be right a higher % of the time.
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Old 12-05-2006, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
What is your BR? 30% or less of my BR I am calling.
Is this a joke? I would say Eclipse is not sitting down in a game with more than 5% of his bankroll ever.
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