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Go Back PokerForums.org > Strategy Discussion > Ring Hand Analysis > Bottom Set. What the Plan?

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2006, 12:36 AM
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Default Bottom Set. What the Plan?

UTG: 14/8/2.8 in 400+ hands.

I barely know the guy though. He never plays hands. He takes down pots in the hands he plays without showdown. Never really does anything stupid. Only big confrontation I've seen is when MP stacked him 20 minutes ago in a flush on flush pot in a blind war where MP had K4 and UTG had JT. MP's a retard, so nothing weird there. I've avoided him 'til now and he's folded everytime I've raised his blind.

(And, yes, the SB folded PF.)

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No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $5/$10
6 players
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Stack sizes:
UTG: $932
MP: $2217.70
Hero: $1440.90
Button: $635
SB: $1010.85
BB: $240.85

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with
UTG calls, MP calls, Hero calls, 2 folds, BB (poster) checks.

Flop: ($45, 4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $33, MP folds, Hero raises to $88, BB folds, UTG raises to $222, Hero ___________ ???

Villian has $700 left.
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Originally Posted by FaDi View Post
GodFadiR (12:32:45 AM): but lets be honest
GodFadiR (12:32:48 AM): who doesnt wanna fuck me
WotaWotaWota (12:33:22 AM): I do
WotaWotaWota (12:33:27 AM): in tehanus
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Old 12-02-2006, 08:51 AM
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Thats a very weird flop texture, ur either way ahead here or way behind. Even if u have him on the straight, its still correct to call to try to fill up cuz of such good implied odds ur getting, also theres a good chance he could be doing this play with a weaker hand. Also villians 3bet was very weak, although im not really sure what this could mean.

In any case, i see 2 ways to play this:

1. flat call the 3bet, and get it all in on the turn.
2. put it all in right now

I'd probably go with the first choice because by doing so, u gain the most value out of hands that u are ahead of on a board like that. If u push that flop, hes probably folding all hands that u beat. By flat calling, and putting it all in on the turn, you give him a chance to bet a weaker hand into you (before putting all ur money in) which would have otherwised folded to an all in push on the flop.

Last edited by Eclipse86; 12-02-2006 at 08:55 AM.
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Old 12-02-2006, 02:45 PM
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Hes got VP$IP of 14% over 400 hands at a 6 max table?

If he's that tight I don't think he is even likely to be limping UTG with A5s, 45s or 56s. On information given there's no reason to believe he would limp with KK/AA and then play it like this. When I used to play this tight the only hands I would regularly limp with UTG at 6 max is probaby 22-77. I honestly believe you are facing a higher set here.

I know that $1000NL is more aggressive than $200-$400NL and you probably have a fairly loose image, whch needs to be taken into account, but at $200NL there are regulars against whom I would fold there.

I expect you pushed all in and got called by higher set?
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Old 12-02-2006, 03:00 PM
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It's been a pretty aggressive table. I wasn't wild at this table because MP raises just about every pot and never folds to re-raises. I just checked my VPIP at this table and it was only 22% last night, way down from my normal 36%, so my image is TAG with people who only really know me from this table. I'd been seated for 4+ hours as has UTG. UTG seemed sensible to make the same adjustment with this guy on his right.
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Originally Posted by FaDi View Post
GodFadiR (12:32:45 AM): but lets be honest
GodFadiR (12:32:48 AM): who doesnt wanna fuck me
WotaWotaWota (12:33:22 AM): I do
WotaWotaWota (12:33:27 AM): in tehanus

Last edited by the alex; 12-02-2006 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 12-02-2006, 04:08 PM
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you describe him as weak tight.

whats hands do you beat? 34,24,42. all of these hands would prolly call your reraise, possibly even fold. furthermore, 90% coherent player folds these hands pf UTG, especially if if he feels players behind him are LAGs.

55-99 I doubt he would re pop you with. on flop, prolly just call.

TT-AA he prolly raises this UTG, Maybe he'd limp w/ KK-AA if LAGs behind.

65 is fairly marginal limp UTG. I dont know how a tight player can do it.
I can see a tight player limping with 33,44.
I can see a tight player making a wacky bluff occasionally.

fold. if you play on, I think it will be a $2k pot. unless he chokes on the turn and cheks it down to river. (even then I doubt you would pot it unless you hit FH). Or, you call here and fold turn to a blank which is dumb imo.

Or you just say hes bluffing and let it rip on flop with all in.

I'm leaning toward fold. Maybe even auto muck if I was familiar with the guy. Id prolly show him what I mucked too b/c im an ideot like that.

HOwevr.... at 25 or 50 or 60nl... im re-poping this all night
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Old 12-02-2006, 04:46 PM
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oh shit!, i complete screwed up the analysis on this hand.. i didnt notice it was a limp pot.. i thought u had raised pf on the button, and that villian limp-called the raise.. my bad

In this case, since its not a limp pot, disregard what i said about the push all in on the flop as one of ur options. That is probably the worst way to play the hand actually.

For this hand I would just assume he has me beat with a straight, and I would just flat call the flop bet and re-evalute the turn. If i dont fill up, and he leads out hard enough to kill my implied odds to keep calling to hit my boat, then i fold it on the turn.
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Old 12-02-2006, 06:00 PM
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Are reverse implied odds against me if I call the flop?
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Originally Posted by FaDi View Post
GodFadiR (12:32:45 AM): but lets be honest
GodFadiR (12:32:48 AM): who doesnt wanna fuck me
WotaWotaWota (12:33:22 AM): I do
WotaWotaWota (12:33:27 AM): in tehanus
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Old 12-03-2006, 05:18 AM
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Soooooo........ What did you do?
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2006, 05:45 AM
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I folded.

I figured he had a pair, but what pairs would he limp UTG? I figured AA and KK because of the retard in MP who liked to pick on him and 88-22. He seemed too sensible to overplay an overpair in an unraised pot unless it was AA or KK so I tossed 88-66 out the window.

33-44: gg
KK: w00t!
AA: ~8.5:1 fav
55: ~3:2 fav (Actually better with my boat redraw.)

I think he'd hand me the noose with KK, so I placed little weight on that. Bad thinking? But that counters my thoughts on 33-44 where he'd be protecting a straight, though he might think I'll overplay an overpair and a lot of card can kill his action on the turn/river.

There's the outside possibility that he was a little tilted from the cooler he took and decided to put LSC's in his limping range OOP. I don't know. Probably a horrible fold. I just didn't wanna put $700 in that I just felt was getting called when I'm behind and I thought calling would just put in the same spot all over again facing a bigger pot with better pushing odds. I will say that this guy would've folded KK if I pushed, but that was the only hand I saw him folding.

I don't know. I haven't done the numbers with combos and equity and all that shit.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaDi View Post
GodFadiR (12:32:45 AM): but lets be honest
GodFadiR (12:32:48 AM): who doesnt wanna fuck me
WotaWotaWota (12:33:22 AM): I do
WotaWotaWota (12:33:27 AM): in tehanus

Last edited by the alex; 12-03-2006 at 05:49 AM.
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Old 12-03-2006, 06:06 AM
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Very nice fold in my opinion.
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