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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2006, 02:26 AM
Meldon's Avatar
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Default QQ out of position

I would appreciate some comments / advice on the following hand. Villain had just recently sat down at the table.

Me ~ $90
Villain ~ $100

6 max (0.25/0.5) NLHE

I am in the BB with

Villain limps in MP, it's folded round to me and I raise it to $2.50, Villain calls.

Pot $5.50

At this point I had him on a mid pocket pair and wish I'd raised a bit more to reduce implied odds.

Flop

I felt that this was a good flop for me, with only A5 to be worried about. I bet out $4 and villain flat called.

Pot $13.50


Turn


I didn't like his call on the flop and wasn't too pleased about this card either. I thought about a $6 or $7 bet, but opted to check. Villain bet $8, I had a bit of a think about it and felt that if my original read was right, then I'm still ahead (i.e. 66-99) and villains bet probably was due to me showing weakness. I called - comments?


Pot $29.50


River


If the turn didn't help him then this didn't either, but again I checked. Villain bet $8 - a marginal hand would have checked. Getting 4.5-1 I made a crying call. Final Pot $45.50
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2006, 03:24 AM
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Default

feels like he has something he wants to play


i wouldnt be suprised if he flips ace 5 suited just given the action, but then again you let him control the hand so that messes yours and my entire read up..
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2006, 03:29 AM
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bet the turn, you are still ahead most of the time

why would the king scare you... you think he has kq? k5?

if he raises you there its prolly an easy fold. but like obga said you let him take control of the hand, you really have no idea what he has.

as played, call the river.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2006, 04:26 AM
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I'm betting about $8 on this turn every time. We know he doesn't have AK and he's dumping any other King on the flop. Whatever he called with on the flop, he's calling the turn. This is a great river to 1/2'ish pot for value.

As you played the turn, bet $13-$15 on the river. He knows you don't have a King and you've played this like AQ-A9. He'll call with AQ (not likely that he has it), let alone AJ, AT, and 55-99. I don't see what he's calling the flop, betting the turn, and folding for $15 on the river. The rare cases he has KQ, KJ, A5, 56, 44, 33, or 22, he'll raise and you'll make a decision. If it's cheap enough and he has you beat, give the finger to the monitor and move on. But he's got 55-99 a large portion of the time. Checking the turn isn't horrible because he's betting with any 2 cards and you'll commit him to the river and that river tells both of you that neither of you has a King.

No reason to believe you don't have the best hand from start to finish and I don't like a check/raise on the turn because it kills your action when he fears AK. The check's gonna induce a bluff, but he knows that if you have AK, you know he'll bluff at it and you lose river money.
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Last edited by the alex; 11-29-2006 at 04:33 AM.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2006, 07:47 AM
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Thanks for the responses.

I did feel that I'd given him control of the hand by checking the turn, hence the reason for posting the hand - I wasn't happy with the way I played it. It almost committed me to call the turn and the river because I knew he would at least bet the turn with any 2 cards as alex said.

Anyway, he turned over 44 for a Full house. I know that the majority of time he's got a mid pair though.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2006, 09:36 AM
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I actually don't mind the way you played the hand since unless he has 56 or 66 there arent' many hands that have a lot of outs against you.

I would also play AA the same way sometimes and QQ if say a 9-10 falls.
Basically you are playing here like you are scared of the K (which you are), so it is good to actually make this move when say a 9 falls, and he will put you on AK.

Having chekced think you have odds to call both turn and obviously river at that price (he could easily have TT/JJ here)
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2006, 10:45 AM
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Sets are the hardest hands to detect, but the limp indicates he was hoping to hit his set cheaply. When he just calls your raise you have to put him on a small pair not a medium pair. You have to think if he had a medium pair in MP he would have to raise to thin the field. If you were willing to call on the turn you should have been willing to bet. If he comes over the top then the King could have saved you money. I have to bet the turn, and then that's when he comes over the top because he's hoping you hit that king and now he'll get paid off.
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 12-01-2006, 01:04 PM
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I think you played this hand good.
You really dont need to be afraid of losing here, you are ahead most of the time.
The river card is actually a good one for you, because the chances of him holding a K are now less likely.

The only thing I would have done differently, is to bet 10$ on river. I'd much rather take the "bet the river, and fold to a raise" line, then to take the "check-call line". IMO, if ur not sure of the strength of ur hand, but ur willing to check-call a 1/3rd ps bet from ur opponent on the river, then it is much better to bet that amount yourself instead. The reasons for this is because if ur opponent is too much of a wuss to bet the river if its checked to him with a weaker holding, you will gain some value because he may be inclined to call ur river bet. So for example, say he had 55-99 here. Most ppl there would check it down on the river if u checked it to him because of that K on the board - also because of the fact that they will probably be thinking "i should probably check it down because no hand that I beat would call a river bet here". However, if u lead out, theres a chance u can get a call from a hand which would have otherwised checked it down.

The only downside to betting out on the river however, is that u may lose some value from a busted draw which may have taken a shot at bluffing the river. But most ppl arent capable of dual barrel bluffing anyways.

However, your check-call isnt bad either.

Last edited by Eclipse86; 12-01-2006 at 01:13 PM.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2006, 01:26 AM
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Default

Thanks for the recent responses as well.

It sounds like the consensus is that checking the turn wasn't that bad a play, but maybe I should have value bet the river, given the second King on the river.

I do also see the logic for betting the turn though. If I'm raised then I have to consider the set and make a decision.

Thinking about it in terms of EV, if I'm ahead the majority of the time then am I right in thinking that the check-call turn, value bet river line gets the most value? Mainly because they are going to bet the turn regardless and not believe that I have a King and likely call my bet on the river.
If I bet the turn then most of the hands that I beat (55-99, AJ, AT etc) are going to fold, whereas all the hands that beat me are going to call/raise.
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