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Go Back PokerForums.org > Strategy Discussion > Ring Hand Analysis > Flop the flush!

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-12-2006, 03:18 PM
KINGJACK's Avatar
Stu Ungar
 
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Default Flop the flush!

NL live 1/2$

Button: Maniac - heraises every A preflop - I saw him calls a raise OOP with 92o then lead the flop after flopping bottom pair and then call a big raise to catch 2 pairs on turn and crack a nice AA.

MP: Weak tight

Me: same image then previous hand

Table: same then previous hand

I call a field of limpers from cutoff with J9s

Button raise at 8
Lots of folds
MP calls
I call

Flop
6h7hTh BOOM!!! Flush + SF draw!!!!

MP checks
I check (Button bets every flops)
Button checks (WTF?!!!!)

Turn
Ax

MP checks
I bet 12$ (looks like a probe bet... I layed a few time before after making that kind of bet on turn)
Button raise it to 25$ total!! Bingo!!! (I would have refer a real move but hey we don spit on that)
MP folds

I put him on the Ah. He may also have 2 pairs... AT A7 or A6

What to do here?
He has 200$+ in front of him and I cover big time

KJ
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10-12-2006, 03:31 PM
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I think you're marginally in front (he could hold a number of flushes you dominate and weaker hands) but it is marginal.

I'm not happy with a call here. I think you need to make the single Ah pay. A fairly large bet that gets him to call IF he has Ah. If he goes all-in... you gotta follow.

If a heart falls on the river could you put down with your bet size on the turn? is the question. If he is on put on the ace then don't change on the river.

Its yukky... I'd bet big and be prepared to put down 1/5 of the time... on an all-in on the river..

If the board pairs - you have another problem
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2006, 06:15 AM
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I would have lead out on that flop for a 50-60% pot bet (about $12-14 on that flop if the ps was 24$) to try to induce a raise, or to try to get button to freeze play me. If button is one to bet every flop when checked to him, he is probably also one to raise a weak lead in position (or freeze play one).

If you cr that flop, you let ur opponent off easy imo. Because once u cr him he now knows u have probably have flush and he can easily let go of his hand. However, if u lead weak and he decides to raise it on the flop, he now has to commit more money to the pot. Same thing if you lead weak, he flat calls, and you check raise him on the turn. I like to play good hands aggressively, as you get paid off more often this way (they have a harder time putting u on a good hand if ur betting it on the flop).

But, as played:

Turn: There is no reason to think you are behind here at all. I'd repop him and put it up to $100 - basically make him play for his stack if he wants to continue with his hand.

Last edited by Eclipse86; 10-13-2006 at 06:25 AM.
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Old 10-14-2006, 02:33 AM
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Don't know the stacks. I'm guessing that this is a $100 game

I like the flop check. There's no reason to think our Villian won't make a big bet. The fact that he didn't makes me salivate because I'm thinking that he's thinking he has the best hand.

I still like the turn lead, though. It looks enough like a half-assed stab at the pot with a mediocre Ace. His min. raise after the PF raise coupled with the flop check is screaming a set of Tens to me. He'd bet the flop with the Ah. The way you describe him, I'm not surprised at his weak raise without a heart.

Re-raise him to $65. At worst, I'm thinking he has AQ with the Qh, IMO, but I'm sticking with a set and that he's hoping that you come over the top with a big Ace. I wouldn't be surprised if he just moved it in after this raise.

I do fully believe that he was slowplaying the flop. The only way he has the Ah is if he flopped the nuts in which case you're going broke against a guy like this everyday. I think he's making a continuation bet with the Kh, as well. All in all, I'm saying I'm sure enough that we got action with the best hand.

If this is a $200 game, I'd raise him to $85 to better commit him to the pot in case he doesn't move in. This guy isn't a good player that likes to mix it up and be unpredictable. He's bad. He'll just think that you're making a counter-move at the pot with this bet, so he'll just call because he wants to milk you. But, you'll take him on the river to no heart. The extra money here makes up for the times a heart hits. Re-raising to $100 looks more like a counter-move, but the psychological effect of that number only carries negative weight and you want action. This isn't a tournament. No reason to be over-protective here. Re-raising to $85 makes him call $60 to win ~$130 with only another ~$110 behind us. He will call and it will still be wrong of him to do so, if he could see your cards. If he is on the Qh, we've got him by the balls.

He's getting about even implied odds for the full house, but with a set, I think he'll move in anyway.

If the betting was still live for the river action, could you close up the turn action and post the river card before giving us results? Thank you, sir.
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Last edited by the alex; 10-14-2006 at 02:48 AM.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2006, 11:57 AM
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checking to an agressive raiser is good. we likley have the best hand, and checking to the button could get him to bet, and it could build you a pot by seeing a few callers before it comes back to you. then, obv, you raise.

i probably lead the turn, but for more than $12
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2006, 10:04 PM
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Stu Ungar
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the alex View Post
Don't know the stacks. I'm guessing that this is a $100 game
It was a 200$... I said it, but at the end of my post... sorry. Non standard procedure!!!

Well I indeed reaised him to 80$ total and he tought for a while and said: ''dam it enough donking for today:: and he flipped over Ax8h... The dam donkey was drawing dead!!!!

Finaly mabe I should have flat call (or raise him to 50$ total) and lead the rive on a non scary card? But if a scary card hits the board he may push me out...

Any way everybody seem to thik I played it pretty ok... it just pissed me off I could'nt get paid by him when everybody was taking his chips sooooo easily!

KJ
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Heck, I've seen people go nuts with middle pair!
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Old 10-16-2006, 03:27 AM
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Wow!

He didn't bet the flop with that? Eh. Being a results-oriented-donk, you got all you could out of him being out of position. There's only so little that you can get on the river with no more cards for him to draw at that you would've overbet him. Basically, if he couldn't call your 3rd raise, he was folding to whatever you saw fit on the river. Not to mention a heart freezes you up a bit or you bet it and he folds unless you're beat.

Just bad luck, really. Usually, if a bad LAG checks the flop after raising preflop, it's with a monster.

nh.
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Originally Posted by FaDi View Post
GodFadiR (12:32:45 AM): but lets be honest
GodFadiR (12:32:48 AM): who doesnt wanna fuck me
WotaWotaWota (12:33:22 AM): I do
WotaWotaWota (12:33:27 AM): in tehanus
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2006, 07:14 AM
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Stu Ungar
 
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Well I think before I reraised him on turn he was considering his hand as a monster!!! 1 over card + a SF draw!!! Wow!!!!

Then he hit his A and after my reraise he realize he was probably drawing dead!! Some donk can call raises totaly out of their odds, but they wont commit $$ if they are drawing dead!! After my reraise he knew I had a flush or a set and that the only way he could take that pot was with a move.

Too bad... I hope he will be there on thursday!

KJ
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Heck, I've seen people go nuts with middle pair!
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