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Go Back PokerForums.org > Strategy Discussion > Ring Hand Analysis > I am a donkey: underplaying strong draws

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-14-2006, 09:13 AM
Chaser
 
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Default I am a donkey: underplaying strong draws

Please see:


http://www.pokerhand.org/?505820

On the flop I had something like 18 outs to top pair, my big mistake was that I should have bet my draw. As a result the guy made a pot sized bet, I called because of the odds, and implied odds, then folded to a second pot sized bet on the turn. To twist the knife, the guy showed he was bluffing, and I had the best hand by far. Had I bet my draw, he would have never bluffed, and I would have easly won the pot.

What are your thoughts?
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Old 09-14-2006, 09:22 AM
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Stu Ungar
 
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Check raise the flop. I'd probably make it $15.
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Old 09-14-2006, 09:34 AM
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You can call on the flop, you just have to call on the turn as well.

You can also raise allin on the flop.
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Old 09-14-2006, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFish
You can also raise allin on the flop.
With 3 people to act behind me and a ~$4.75 pot, I'm insta check-raising this coordinated flop all-in.
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Old 09-14-2006, 02:02 PM
Mike McDermott
 
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AI alex? He's got $40+ behind, can you explain why you would push? (I get the 3 people behind, but that's a 10x raise). I'd bet out here, why the CR?
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Old 09-14-2006, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanyBullets1
AI alex? He's got $40+ behind, can you explain why you would push? (I get the 3 people behind, but that's a 10x raise). I'd bet out here, why the CR?
12 outs to the absolute nuts if your opponent has a set- discounting your opponents' odds to the FH/quads, you're a 2:1 dog. But he limped PF and I think that we can throw QQ out the window so only 6 combinations have us as 2:1 dogs.

15 outs against AQ, KQ and KK+ as an 11:9 fav. Add in the times you pick up the pot with Ace high when your opponent is forced to fold QJ and JJ. If not, v. QJ=17 outs and v. JJ=16 outs. You could have the best hand against KJ, J9 and AJ. And you have 16 outs against 2d3d as an 11:9 fav.

There's enough dead money in the pot to make this a +EV push.
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GodFadiR (12:32:45 AM): but lets be honest
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Old 09-14-2006, 03:29 PM
Mike McDermott
 
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But we're only pushing here because we expect at least one call right? Not to take it down here (which wouldn't be bad)?
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Old 09-14-2006, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanyBullets1
But we're only pushing here because we expect at least one call right? Not to take it down here (which wouldn't be bad)?
Some better math people can figure out what we really, but taking down a 20x pot with Ace hi ain't bad. In my head, worst case scenario, I get called as a small dog, but most times I'm called as a slight favorite with $5 of dead money in the pot. If you only call, you're 2:1 at best because you're only gonna see 1 more card.
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GodFadiR (12:32:45 AM): but lets be honest
GodFadiR (12:32:48 AM): who doesnt wanna fuck me
WotaWotaWota (12:33:22 AM): I do
WotaWotaWota (12:33:27 AM): in tehanus
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Old 09-14-2006, 04:04 PM
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I understand, I keep forgetting to look at pot size in relation to the number of blinds you're winning and moreso compare it to the stacks.
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Old 09-14-2006, 07:22 PM
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I missed the extra straight outs. That could mean as many as 18 outs against a maniac who believes his middle pair or Q-low is good.
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