I've described Cliff in a Glory Corner thread where I discussed the best laydown I've probably ever made. I'm up against him here. If you're not familiar with Cliff or you've forgotten, here are 2 threads:

Two hands including one of the sickest laydowns I've ever made.
Jacks Again?!!!

No. Max Buy-in. NL Hold 'em
$5/$10 Blinds
$1 Ante

Stacks:
Cliff: ~$2500
Me: ~$1600

I was in late-middle position (right of the CO). The CO and button were so nitty. I was stuck about $600 going into this hand and it could've been worse if their blinds and buttons weren't so easy to steal. They were still yet to tax me. I was playing pretty conservative otherwise. I got stuck in a set v. set cooler earlier and I didn't steam, but I got there early to there for a long night, so I was pacing myself.

Cliff (Positionally Passive-Aggressive) was a couple of seats to my right on the other side of the dealer. I hate Seat 1 with a passion, but that was my seat.

My cards:

2 folds. Cliff limps. Fold. I raise to $40. CO and Button fold with the blinds. Cliff calls. Now, I will say that Cliff almost never raises out of late postion unpaired and I've never seen him raise in the first 3 seats with a mid-pair, but he'll limp loosely because people are prone to giving him free cards for that reason.

Heads Up Flop:

Cliff checks. I bet $100 to take it down and he called in a millisecond and I don't know if I should've said this or not, but it slipped out. I said with a laugh, "You're a real motherfucker sometimes, you know that?" and he slightly smirked with his toothpick out the side of his mouth.

Turn:

Cliff checks. I _________________ ????????

What's the plan here if we have to see a river?

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I check. I want to keep pot small on dangerous board. def want to see the river, and get a boat?

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ICM / EV Calculator and other free poker software

he limped with them before...i would start proning for information to see what i get from him..

cliff, did you make your jack set again? or something to the effect trying to get information.

Also flush draw and sd, id slow down

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You know this guy. Be very careful here. I would seriously consider checking as far as possible and hope to make a boat. See what he does on fourth street.

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KRE8R probably has about seventy college funds in his NL5 roll.

I bet the pot here (300).

If he's bluffing, it will be hard for him to keep it up.
If he's drawing (TT, FD...) you at least deny him odds, and he may lay it down.
If he has a set, he probably needs to raise to protect against the FD.
If he has a non-nut flush, he probably needs to raise to protect against the higher flush.

If he reraises the turn, you can lay it down.
If he flat calls, at least you have position and decide whether to call the river.

I think checking the turn is a mistake. You show him that he can put you on the defensive. He'll be able to bet the river with anything and it will be a tough call. It also gives free cards when you may very well have the best hand.

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"There is a good chance I gave you a very bad description of something that doesn't work."

Good points but:

Why would he CR with a set on the turn? He doesn't want to increase the pot size against a made flush, so he would just bet there?

__________________
ICM / EV Calculator and other free poker software

I wouldn't put him on a set here (if I wasn't made to assume Cliff has JJ), but some posters are. At any rate, only a set and flush are ahead of us right now, so you have to consider it. If he does have a set, I agree that he misplayed it.

I would want a boat too, who wouldn't? But I don't take free cards hoping for a 4 outer. I want my info on the turn. If he's trapping i would rather smoke him out of the bushes on the turn then have to make a tough call on the river.

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"There is a good chance I gave you a very bad description of something that doesn't work."

Why?

Ok if he does have a diamond or TT, you give him possible free outs by not betting turn but in terms of $$ at risk, checking turn and calling river will cost you no more than betting turn and folding to a raise. The bluffs you pick off on river should roughly balance out the times you lose to some river outdraw.

Also this way you get to see his cards and learn something and remove any chance of sitting there wondering if you were bluffed.

I would definitey check turn and call river here (unless its a stupid card like 10 of diamonds).

I don't think checking turn is totally wrong here. I just prefer betting. But I don't have experince at these levels, so anyone reading my opinion, take it for what its worth (which may not be much... but there needs to be more people posting in hand analysis these days).

Betting the turn gives us 2 ways to win and a stronger table image (although since Cliff and Alex play alot, image may not be as important here).

Calling river gives us only 1 way to win. What if he overbets river? Then it becomes more costly.

I think we are ahead more often than behind in this situation. If we are behind, he may fold anyway if 3rd diamond scares him enough.

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"There is a good chance I gave you a very bad description of something that doesn't work."

I tend to agree with ypsieast except for the size of the bet - half the pot is enough to make a flush or str8 draw a mistake if it's not already made. If they are made, a ck-r would be expected but if he only calls I figure my 2 top pair are still ahead. I'm hoping he'll either fold or just call and then check into me on the river where if it's a blank I'm going for a value bet or if it's a scare card I check it thru if I can. If he bets into me I call half the time and fold the other half - this guy doesn't strike me as much of a bluffer though.

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