Hello. I've been playing hold em for only a couple of months now so I'm still learning odds and what-not, so any help with the following confusion is appreciated.

If I have to call 100 into a 200 pot I have pot odds of 2:1; I have to pay 50% of the value of the pot to see the turn. I'm 2:1 underdog to make my flush by the river, but we know here 2:1 means 35%... whereas for the calling situation above 2:1 means 50%... right? or have I missed something? Seems to me that 2:1 means 50% in one situation and 35% in another, though I know this doesn't make sense. Aren't my calling odds 1:1, since this would make it obvious that I don't have odds to call... I guess my question is why is 50% of the value of the pot expressed as 2:1 whereas with 9 outs at 35% also expressed as 2:1? If I just think, 2:1 pot odds=break even to call, I'll lose money, since it's actually 50% and 35%. So why are both expressed as 2:1? Or what am I missing?

Thanks for any help.

you are paying 33% of the total pot since your 100 now makes it a 300 pot. I believe that is where the discrepancy you are talking about comes from.

Yeah, you're calling 100 into 200. This makes the pot 300. If you win 1 time out of 3, you will break even (you will put in 300, and win 300 once).

If you are 2:1 underdog that means you will also win 1 out of 3. Given this situation it's break even. If you win more often than the pot odds, you profit. If you win less often than the pot odds, you lose.

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ah... so you actually have to make a bet that is larger than the size of the pot to make it an unprofitable call for someone on a flush draw? Even a pot size bet gives them a break-even call..?

I was thinking wrong. I thought 100 into a 200 pot is obviously 50%... forgot that after the call it is 100 into 300... stupid me! Thanks for the pointers folks.

This is incorrect. On the flop, if you have a flush draw, you are approximately 2 to 1 against making the flush by the river. You are 5 to 1 to make it on the turn where you will probably have to call another bet. The only way calling a pot size bet with a naked flush draw is break-even on the flop is if there will not be a bet on the turn (because everyone is all-in.)

No.

When looking at your odds you think of it as the odds of hitting by the next card. If you have a flush draw on the flop and someone bets (but not all in) you will be 2:1 to hit by the river card, but you are 4:1 to hit by the turn card. You use the 4:1 as your required odds as there may well be bets on the next round, you're opponent might well bet the pot again.

It can get more complicated (with implied odds etc.) but if you want to deny drawing odds for a flush draw you should bet more than 1/3 of the pot (when there is money behind that can be bet on the next round that is).

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David, I think this is the second time we've posted at the same time with the same response. Quit reading my mind.

Thanks for the replies, very useful indeed.
The book I've been studying simply say things along the lines of "if the pot odds are higher than the drawing odds, a call is profitable." They don't explain the difference between calling on the turn/river etc. So with the flush draw example it's really (approx) 4:1 against on the turn and 4:1 against on the river... with combines to mean 2:1 overall?

So likewise then with a straight draw, your odds are almost as bad as 5:1 on both turn and river... so whilst the book tells me I've a 31% chance (nearly 2:1) in reality this is only for an all-in with the right odds, since it means 2:1 by the river? Meaning if my opponent bets half the pot on the flop, giving me pot odds of 3:1, a call is incorrect... since the the way to look at the odds is by the next card i.e. my odds are only 5:1... not 2:1.....?

Thanks again... just want to make sure I'm not making unprofitable calls!

Yeah you're right. What book is it?

You judge it by the odds of hitting on the next card. It can change if it's an all in or if a call is pretty much putting all the money in (ie. there is a tiny amount left that will go in on the turn anyway etc.) but generally that's the idea.

Once you learn it a bit more you get implied odds and other stuff which means you can sometimes call a bet without the "correct" odds if you think the opponent will contribute more money to the pot when you hit your hand.

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helped me out some.

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