I'm not exactly a newbie, but I figured this belonged here.

Where can I find a complete set of rules regarding misdeals?

More specifically, what would you do about the following situation?

Two players are all in preflop, and they showdown (88 vs QQ). The dealer wasn't paying attention and just sweeps the muck, along with the QQ, into the deck to pass on down the table. Apparently he didn't know the other player had called the all in or something.

A spectator (who had been knocked out recently) claims she saw the dealer rake all the cards to the bottom of the deck, thus keeping the "real" flop untainted. And the Queens were found in the bottom six cards. But the 88 player said he thinks its a complete misdeal, the pot should be split, and the hand redealt. He claimed it couldn't be proven that all the cards were placed on the bottom and that there was a chance the top 7 cards could have been disturbed.

Misdeal:Split pot

do a google search fo "robert's rules for poker"

Caro's Page has a good set of rules on it. www.poker1.com

__________________

14.20 MISDEALS.
Misdeals may be called for any irregularity in the initial dealing round, until substantial action has taken place. Once substantial action has taken place, the hand must proceed. The following constitute a misdeal: a) failure to shuffle and/or cut the deck before dealing; b) dealing to the wrong player first; c) failure to deal each player his proper card. (A card initially dealt to the wrong player but not looked at can be moved to its proper owner, however no more than two cards may be pushed back. If more than two cards have to be pushed back it's a misdeal.); d) dealing out a player with money committed to the pot (blinds or antes) or a player on the button. (An absent player other than the above who has expressly asked for a hand but has been dealt around will also cause a misdeal unless all other players have received starting cards.); e) dealing too many cards to a player, except when the last card dealt was due to be the burn card and can be returned to the deck. (If the player looked at the card, it is a misdeal. If the player did not look at the card, it is not a misdeal.); f) dealing too few cards to a player except when that player is due to get the top card of the deck; g) exposing the first or second card dealt; h) the exposure of two or more cards that need to be replaced; i) the presence of more than one boxed card on the initial dealing round; j) the discovery of one or more cards missing from the deck; k) dealing any cards that were supposed to be part of the flop or draw. In the event of a misdeal all the cards shall be returned to the dealer, and the cards scrambled, shuffled, cut and dealt. Note that if a player is dealt in who should not have received a hand, then it is not a mis-deal and the deal stands and that player's hand is dead. l) dealing in a player who hasn't anted or posted (Alternate Rule. A player who hasn't anted or posted has a dead hand, and it shall not be considered a misdeal.)

__________________

14.25 IMPROPERLY DROPPED DECK.
If the deck is dropped b the dealer, whether because the dealer mistakenly believes the hand is over or otherwise, the dealer shall pick the deck back up and continue to use it if at all possible and if the top of the deck can be determined, If the correctness or integrity of the deck is questioned by any player or is otherwise in doubt, then floorperson shall be called and the dealer shall take the unused cards, reshuffle and cut them. Cards known toe discards shall not be included in this re-shuffle, not shall any cards which were burned. Cards which might or might not be part of the discards, but which cannot be determined shall be deemed discards and shall not be reshuffled. After cutting the dealer continue the deal, including all requisite burns.

14.26 RESHUFFLES.
In any situation in any game requiring a reshuffle, neither discards nor burns shall be included in the reshuffle. If there is any doubt as to whether a card ought be included in the reshuffle, then it shall not be so included.

__________________

So Basically caro is saying, if I was the floorperson/dealer in this case, the QQ should be return to the person who had it, The known Discards and a couple more that may have possibly been in the muck need to be removed from the deck, the deck reshuffled, and the hand played out.

__________________

Marm, while that is one way to read the rules, what about protecting your hand? If your hand is accidently picked up and put in the muck pile, isn't it a dead hand you are stupid for not protecting it?

Personally, if I saw a dealer (with the action as stated) even thinking about moving his hand towards the turned up cards then I'm going to punch him. The only other thing I'm still having trouble with on this hand is how the dealer accidently picked up the QQ but left the 88 sitting on the table and even went so far as to hand the cards over. I can understand the dealer losing interest in the hand but I would think the other players at the table (with 1 AI) would be extremely interested and find a way to notify the dealer that he's about to screw up before he actually screws up...

Having said all that I can also see where a case is (unless somebody could identify the suits of the QQ) the player with 88 making a case that just because there were QQ in the bottom 6 cards, it is remotely possible that the other 2 Qs were down there...the best thing to do is (imho) if this is a friendly game, is to give the guys back their starting money before the hand began if possible and just go from there...

If nobody is exactly sure how much each player had before the start of the hand then split the pot, shoot the dealer and move on.

__________________
Trons
JstTrons
Toyotatruck