I've been playing poker for about 2 years now and have been rather successful without implementing pot odds. I've been cleaning up at my college games, home games, and small limit cash games online. However, I'm looking to up my level and play much more serious poker and KNOW that fully understanding and utilizing pot odds is a must.

I have Phil Gordon's book and it is amazing! However, reading his chapter on odds and then reading the article provided under this board actually has me confused and even less understanding.

Gordon's book tells me to use a break even point while the Krieger article tells me to use a "x 2 + 2" system and I am now confused as hell, haha.

Any help??

Do a search on "pot odds" here.. and see what you drag up... Not sure what your specific question is though....

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I guess I'm just looking for the quickest way to determine them and exactly how to. With the book and the article giving me two different ways to do them, I don't know which to do when in a game.

Let me do an example and hopefully some can tell me if I'm doing this right!

So I have four cards to a flush after the flop which means I have 9 outs to hit it on either the turn or the river. Now by going by Phil Gordon's book, my implied odds are 36% of hitting it. According the article, my pot odds are 20% (9x2+2) and that means my call has to be less than 1/5 the pot? Or is that wrong?

Now, first question: What the hell is the difference between the two and which should I look at? Do I go by the implied odds and does that mean my bet has to be 1/3 the pot or I have to have 3-1 odds? Why are the pot odds different?

I guess I'm just lost.

I know that with the implied odds, if I have at least 25% I should make the call and considering I would have 36% after the flop, I should do it?

OR do I combine the two to make my decision?

As in, with the implied odds being 36% and justifying the call, my call still has to be less than 1/5 the pot for it to be the RIGHT decision.

Any help??

So I think by just reading through Gordon's chapter again and committing his chart to memory, I can do these odds correctly! The chart gives you the size of bet, the number of outs, and which odds it relates to.

So for example, it is correct to call bet that is the full-size of the pot while working on a flush draw after the flop (9 outs, 33% to break even). With that, if you don't hit it, it is then only correct to call a bet that is 1/4 of the pot or less with that flush draw (9 outs, 17% to break even.

With an open-ended straight draw, it is correct to call a bet of 3/4 of the pot or less, after the flop (8 outs, 30% to break even). It is only correct to call a bet LESS than 1/4 of the pot with the OESD on the river.

I think by committing these EASY out rules to memory, I can make the right calls quicker after the flop.

Yes? No?

Well, for the 36% vs 20%.... 36% is the percent of hitting your flush on the turn AND the river. While 20% is for only the turn card.

So pot odds only refer to the turn and implied odds refer to both??

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BOSS

that is the one think I do not like about Gordon's book.

Using the rule of 4 will have you callilng in unprofitable situations (not counting implied odds), since he ignores that you will have to call another bet on the turn, and doesnt account for it.

I like to use the rule of 2 on each betting round, but allow from some fudging on the flop.

Pot odds give you the money in the pot vs. the chance of hitting your card. Implied odds take into account extra chips you COULD win from your opopnent on future betting rounds.

Generally, I look at pot odds first. If I have pot odds, then a call is a given. If I don't, but it's close I will then take into account implied odds. The problem with implied odds is that often they don't pan out, especially with an obvious draw like a flush. You make a loose call counting on implied odds, and the often when your draw DOES hit you opponent correctly puts you on your draw and folds. That can make that a long term money losing play.

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I'm CDO. It's like OCD, but everying is in order just like it should be.

Some clarification:

Probability (p) = % chance you will get your card
Quick approx. calculation is 2x outs + 2 for 1 card; 4x outs for 2 cards
If you have 9 outs, your (p) of hitting an out on 1 card = 20% and 36% for 2 cards

Odds (o) = (1-p)/p
If p = 20% then o = (1-.20)/.20 = 4 to 1

Pot Odds = ($ of Pot)/($ to call)
If the pot is 500 and it costs you 100 to call then your pot odds = 5 to 1
Pot odds are favorable when greater than the odds to hit your out
If your odds to hit your hand are 4 to 1 and the pot odds are 5 to 1, then the situation offers favorable pot odds and you should usually call.
The problem is that if you calculate you (p) and in turn your (o) based on 2 cards to come, you are ignoring the fact that you may have to call another bet on the turn. If calling would put you all in, you would use the formula [outs x4] to calculate your (p).

Implied Odds = Pot Odds adjusted for the likelihood of winning additional bets, should you hit your outs.
There isn't a standard formula for implied odds. You just think e.g., "OK, if I complete my OESD, I can double up through this guy; even though my odds are 5.25 to one to complete my str8 and the pot odds are only 4 to 1, I'm going to call. Because if I hit my card, I will be paid 10 times this bet on the turn.

Breakeven Percentage = % times you need to win in that situation to break even win/loss over the long run.
Calculation: ($ to call)/($ in pot + $ to call)
Example: Pot is 800 and you have to call 200 to see the river. Breakeven %= 200/(800+200) = 20% This means that if you called a million times in this situation, you would break even in the long run if you had a 20% chance of winning the hand.
If your Breakeven % is less than your (p), then it is +EV to call.