You type a lot, but you don't say anything.

You're saying it's a video game. Fine if that's what you think, but I don't know if that's what you think, but you're NOT SAYING ANYTHING! What seperates a video game from online poker is that real money is at stake and you're not battling any elements of a CPU. The cards are random and the people play them how they choose.

I'm good with dialogue, but you asked a question, answered questions with questions, but you're not looking to know anything and not making any points. What am I missing here?

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How ironic of you to say so.

I type a lot, but I don't say anthing...quite the paradox isn't it?

Really? So are you suggesting that video poker is "real poker"?

Not that I am ascribing a "will" to a computer, but what exactly is a computer doing when it "decides" to play cards a certain way? But wait, that is not the point. The point is, would you know the difference? How could you tell?

And think about the implications of your answers. If you can't tell your playing with real people, and playing with real people is what makes online poker "real poker"....than your in a logical bind, no?

You're obviously not answering my questions. So your answer to: "how do you know real people are playing" is "because I am playing with real money"?

What am I missing here?

This is what I mean by "You're not saying anything.":

Are you saying that because there's no physical verification of the human brings in the moment that online poker isn't poker? Or are you saying that it's because you can't see the people even though they're there?

If you don't think they're there, then what do you think is there? A CPU? Are you talking about bots set up by humans to play for them? Or are you talking online poker sites scamming people?

This is what I've been trying to get you to answer, not for shits and giggles, but because I don't know:

A.) Your motivation for this.- Is this all indulgent? Is this all patronizing? Is this curiosity as to whether you can trust online poker? Are you asking what changes you'd have to make to play online? Are you asking if it's worth it to play online?

or

B.) Your points proving online poker is not poker and what makes those points significant to your argument that online poker isn't poker. I was honest pages ago and I'm honest now in saying that I don't know what the hell you're talking about and everytime I seek clarity, you spout out questions that I don't know how to answer in context because you've laid out no content.

Every post from you I'm getting this image of a guy who likes to play poker because he looks good doing it and poker's about "being seen." It's the "in thing." And that people making thousands, tens of thousands, and hundreds of thousands a year online are less poker players than the guy who goes to the casino once a week for 4 hours and fires bullets in the form of white, clay chips while he stares his enemy down in the trenches of the local 1/2 limit game.

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so video poker isn't real poker? i think it's still a game ..let me get this right if i play chess on the computer thats not "real" chess ..cause i'm playin the computer and not a human.... so are the rules different?right?.... cause nobody told me the purpose of the game changed.well damn anyways if all of this is the case ..why is it i can play a handheld poker game like it's nobodys business but when i hit the tables @ pokerstars i can lose my butt in no time at all... let me answer the question my self ... cause i've figured out the handheld but i can't figure out whats going on in the heads of all the crazy live humans on pokerstars. interesting... really though long story short ...there need not be a bot cause the rake takes it all in the end.

Alex, you keep hounding me to make an argument. What you seem to ignore is that this thread started with a question, not an argument.

Is online poker, poker proper?

Now, I have tried to engage in some discussion. But all you folks seem to want to affirm is that poker is about money, and online poker is safe. I can obviously see why that matters to you. But this thread was not started because I distrust online poker. It is a discussion of whether online poker is poker "proper".

Chritina here seems to think that video poker is the ame as online and live poker...or am I misunderstanding your statement?

Well I say it is not mainly because you are not vying for a pot. Which means that a losing hand can't win in video poker. So it is not poker "proper".

Now, some of you have pointed out that online poker is real poker because you are playing against real people.

All I asked was how do you know?

One response, again I think it was Christina, said it is easy to beat "bots"...you can figure them out.

My response to this is; is it somehow different when you play a donk? Are they newb's because they are predictable?

So...how do you know you are playing real felsh and blood?

lord knows ..i hope someone helps you find the answer you are looking for.

ahhh i think i've got it...is it proper? you know what ...probably not as it is missing some elements of the orginal game. but the poker played online is proper for what it is... online poker..understand? and ofcoarse i know that video/online/and live poker are all different but the point of the game doesn't change...understand where i'm coming from?
but i think you're looking for the answer "no" online poker is not completly proper.
hey...what a sec ...
i think you changed the question on me... is it how do i know i'm playing flesh? or is the game proper?
well to answer the second question you can tell you're playing flesh cause their betting habits are not as predictable as a bot. cool ..i think i got it.. go me! go me! go go go me!
oh and by the way my super power is confusing people you can't have it cause it's already been deemed mine...okay

Proper in the sense that the game's structure and rules are played? It is my opinion that what makes poker...well poker proper, is that there are elements outside of the "rules" that make it the game that it is.

Yes, I understand what you wrote, but I disagree. If point of poker is to win money, poker would not differ from say, blackjack under your logic. Yet clearly we idenitify these as distinct games. Why? And can we take this further and define what is distinct about live games and online games? If they are distinct enough, at what point are they "different games"? See where I am heading with this?

I might be, I might not. Better to be a skeptic to begin with, than assume what may not be the obvious.

The first question was an out growth of the second. In answering, is online poker, poker proper, some folks said "because I am playing real people"...I responded with "how do you know?"

And you have never said to yourself "this donk is SO predictable!", and proceeded to clean him out?

Just don't confuse yourself.

Just define "properness" for us. Once we have a working definition, we can get somewhere.

Remember, what you think a word means may not be what other people think it means. Especially for non-tangible things like ideas and classifications.

Edit: You posted as I typed. Well, okay, now you have to delineate precisely what elements you're speaking of. Give us a list! Then we can debate whether certain things do or don't belong on the list.

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... can't sleep, blinds will eat me ...

okay ponder on this. there is no correct answer for your question and if there was one you wouldn't accept it. don't try to use your jedi powers on me lol. we both know whats up. you don't really want an answer. you want some kinda arguement. so whatever... your right... whateva i said forget it cause your right. alright? i'm sorry for being a smart ass.