Cake Poker
Home
Forum
News
Articles
Site Reviews
Book Reviews
Interviews
Chat
Tournaments
60% Rakeback
50% RakebackNew!
125% Rakeback
Probabilities
Glossary
Poker Gear
Links
Advertise
User Name  
 
Password
Cookie?  
 
 
Poker Players on Launchpoker.com
LaunchPoker.com provides you with all the information you need about this year's WSOP event, from the 2008 WSOP schedule to the latest 2008 WSOP updates.
Online poker reviews of rooms such as Full Tilt Poker, Poker Stars and Titan Poker.
Click here to play!
Extras

Cool Hand Poker. Get $350 Free!!
PokerListings

Go Back PokerForums.org > General > Glory Corner > Now I know how Marm feels with the AKo

Notices

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2005, 06:29 PM
Steve-O's Avatar
I donk off Wota's $$$
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 5,362
Trade Rating: (0)
Default

this may help, reprinted with the authors permission


Calling With AK or TT In the Final Stages of a No-Limit Tournament


A solid player moves all in right before you and you are going to call, which hand would you rather hold TT or AK?

AK can be one of the more difficult hands to play in a No Limit Tournament. While AK is an underdog to any pair it is also a favorite over any 2 unmatched cards. Most people would assume that with the odds being so cut and dry it would be an easy decision, but what should you do if someone moves all in before you?

The strength of AK in this situation varies greatly based on the hands your opponent will move all in with, in this column I will give you 2 circumstances and the proper play to make.

Situation 1 - You are already in the money in a no limit tournament with an about average stack of 19,000 with the blinds at 500/1000 . A player with a stack of 9,000 moves all in from UTG and everyone folds to you on the button with AK. You know this opponent quite well and feel he would only move all in like this with a pair of 8s or higher or AK.

In this situation you will never be ahead in the hand and should fold, some people might say it is a coin flip, I say anyone who wants to flip a coin as 57/43 underdog please call me! Those happen to be your odds with AK against TT! Don't let those "coin flip" people fool you, and remember when your opponent has KK or AA you are a big dog, even with the extra 1,500 chips from the blinds this is an unnecessary gamble.

Situation 2 - Same scenario as before only you think this opponent is getting a little desperate and add AQ, AJs, and KQs to his possible holdings? Now the situation is a little trickier let's examine the possibilities for each holding and your overall chances to win.

There are 6 possible ways to be dealt each pair from 88-QQ. Giving us 30 possible combinations for you to be a slight underdog.

There are 3 possible ways for your opponent to be dealt AA or KK (remember you have an Ace and a King), giving us 6 time you will be dominated.

There are 9 ways for your opponent to be dealt AQ, 3 ways to be dealt AJs, and 3 ways to be dealt KQs (remember you have an Ace and a King). So 15 times you will be a big favorite.

In this situation you will be a heavy favorite 29% of the time, a slight underdog 59% of the time, and a big underdog 12% of the time. If everything holds to form and the situation came up 100 times you will win approximately 27 times in the coin flip situations, and 29 times when you are the favorite for a total of 588,000 chips you will lose approximately 32 of the coin flip situations as well as the 12 times you are behind for a total of 396,000 chips. Because of the added hands this situation has now turned into a call.

Now I will examine TT in the same 2 situations.

In situation 1 where your opponent will only play 88 or a higher pair and AK you will be a big favorite against 88 and 99 only. You will be a slight favorite against AK, and a big underdog to JJ, QQ, KK, and AA.

There are 16 possible combinations of AK, 12 combinations of 88 and 99, and 24 combinations of JJ-AA. With a 2 to 1 chance to be dominated rather than to dominate this is a pretty easy fold.

In situation 2 these results would change to, 40 combinations where you are a slight favorite, 12 combinations where you are a big favorite, and 24 combinations where you are a big underdog.

This is still a bad call, you will win 22 coin flip situations along with the 12 times you are a favorite for a total of 357,000 chips. You will lose 18 coin flip situations along with the 24 times you are dominated for a total of 378,000 chips.

As you can see a looser opponent helps AK a lot more than a hand like TT. But the more important figure in my view is the times you are dominated. AK will very rarely be dominated where TT will be dominated 3 times as often. Even JJ will be dominated twice as much as AK. This is one of the reasons you will hardly ever see a player muck AK before the flop at the end of a tournament, it almost always has a chance to win.

If I placed you in the above 2 situations which hand would you rather be holding AK or TT? Did your answer from earlier change?

You can run these scenarios yourself and loosen up your opponent to playing any pair or any Ace and change your hands around to AQ or JJ and see how they fare. Doing this will allow you to make the correct decision as well as giving you some great statistical information for when you find yourself in these situations, considering you would have to be a mathematical genius to do these calculations on the spot!
__________________
For poker news, strategy, and more, check out my daily column at Examiner.com
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2005, 07:27 PM
Diggler's Avatar
Poker Hustler
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Canada in the Praries....
Posts: 1,143
Trade Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to Diggler
Default

perfect ty Steve...
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by poker player 100 View Post
However the players there are tight and just the flops are hit or miss IMO.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-10-2005, 10:28 PM
Marm's Avatar
PokerForums God
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 9,296
Trade Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to Marm Send a message via MSN to Marm
Default

I dont care About Ako's cahnces of holding up, But I think I would call, if the all-iner has been loose and accustom to all-in isolation moves with weaker hands.

Against a player we know is a rock, This is a pitch, because most rock/tight players wouldn't try to isolate with a medium strength ace, usually just mid to mid-high pairs. Then the 80/20 that steve spewed before would be flipped ( I think thats how i read it steve) That 80% were a 55/45 (whatever) dog, and 20% were a 75-25 (?) fav. That Ev math doesnt look pretty when you conssider the 'reward' for losing.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-11-2005, 09:36 PM
goose58's Avatar
River Rat
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Washington, USA
Posts: 351
Trade Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to goose58
Default

Calling is fine, really. 1st guy is very short and is capable of going allin with any 2 big cards and any pair. 2nd guy looks like he's reraising to isolate.

Best case scenerio, they have QK/AJ or weaker. Worst case they have AA/KK but that is very unlikely.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2005, 08:31 AM
PokerForums God
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,172
Trade Rating: (0)
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Announced Tilt
Yes, I think this warrants a fold. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd like to see some others' inputs on this hand.
Yeah, you are wrong here, the pot odds make this a clear call. Remeber there is 4500 in dead money in the pot and you are getting a 3k discount on the call, and will only have about 5BBs left if you fold.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2005, 08:43 AM
the alex's Avatar
PokerForums God
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nort Side o' Shi-kawgo
Posts: 7,961
Trade Rating: (0)
Send a message via AIM to the alex Send a message via MSN to the alex Send a message via Yahoo to the alex
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beavis68
Yeah, you are wrong here, the pot odds make this a clear call. Remeber there is 4500 in dead money in the pot and you are getting a 3k discount on the call, and will only have about 5BBs left if you fold.
There's no such thing as discounts in gambling. If so, there'd be "sure things." Good Get:Lay ratio- Good odds, now that's realistic gambling rhetoric. Discounts don't exist in gambling especially when the game in untimed.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by FaDi View Post
GodFadiR (12:32:45 AM): but lets be honest
GodFadiR (12:32:48 AM): who doesnt wanna fuck me
WotaWotaWota (12:33:22 AM): I do
WotaWotaWota (12:33:27 AM): in tehanus
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:56 AM.

   Designed by
      
No Deposit Bonus
Poker Strategy
Poker Rooms
PartyPoker Bonus Codes
Poker Site USA
Online Casino Bonuses
Pokerspiele
Casinos That Accept USA Players
Poker Rakeback
Full Tilt bonus code
Rakeback
Casino
Nowadays in the Internet the Players are looking for a good Casino Bonus to find the best possible options for online Roulette.There is now the option of RtlPoker and a nice Casino Bonus to play some other games then just Poker.
The ideal casino site for gokkasten and even online poker including online casino games that can be found on mijn online casino, your casino information site for when gambling online or even offline.
Party Poker bonus code & room review
Tony G talks about his experinces in his blog
REVIEW OF PARADISE POKER WEBSITE
Online Poker Room Directory and latest poker news
Best Online Poker info on Internet!
Ultimate Bet new 40% deposit bonus
Copyright © 2004-2008 PokerForums.org, a Merendi Networks Inc. project.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0 ©2008, Crawlability, Inc.