Calling large bets on the river

**Antneye** · 03-02-2006

I don't have a hand history, so this is more anecdotal than anything. Just wondering peoples feelings when faced with a relatively large river bet. Recently I had 2 spots where I was fairly strong...say top 2 Google Page Ranking into a 3 flush on brd. Fearing the flush I checked and had a bet roughly the pot or better thrown back at me.

In both instances I called and took down the pot. It got me thinking about betting strategy. Are people making big bets hoping to chase you away? That would make it more profitable to call. Or is it more likely that people are making big bets because they are like a 15 yr old ejaculating immediately upon liftoff?

I have a hard time determing this. I often wonder if I am leaving money on the table by folding marginal calls on the river. I am strictly talking large bets relative to pot. I am mostly calling and paying off anything 1/2 pot and below on river with a semi strong hand.

**gENERIX** · 03-02-2006

When i began playing poker i was making the mistake of placing large bets on the river card. The reason for this was simply i had put far too much money into the pot to run away and fold.

Instead i chose to place a big bet in the hope that i would chase the remaining players away from the pot. Sometimes this would work and in other cases it wouldnt. I dont play as loose as i used to so when money is in the pot from my side of things i normally have decent enough cards to back up my play. If i dont i fold which is the right decision 99% of the time!

**Antneye** · 03-02-2006

I was just reminded of something Sklansky said in TOP. He said if you are winning a very high % of the pots where you call, then you aren't calling enough. (paraphrased of course)

I think this is the heart of what i am trying to figure out.

**Aces-o-8s** · 03-02-2006

Certainly the correct answer(s) would be hand specific and depend on your read of the player, the betting patterns and texture of the flop, turn and river.
Check-calling will sometimes catch a bluff and that is why some good players who figure they are going to showdown with the best hand against a calling station will occationally and deliberately check to induce a bluff whereas if they had bet, the call stn would have folded a weaker hand - thus they induce an extra bet!
In your delima, your check wasn't to induce a bet but rather to just check down the sd so that if you are 2nd best it won't cost you any extra. Of course this indicates weakness and will prompt an aggressive player to attempt a bluff. If they bet 1/2 pot they only have to succeed 1 time in 3 to break-even. That gives you 2 in 3 odds to call if you have a legitimate hand! Even if you lose to a real flush, the opps now knows you will call down a obvious flush at showdown and thus reduce the chances they will try a bluff in the future!
In Ed Miller's "Small Stakes Holdem" he advocates you have to be 90% sure you are beat before folding on the river - this was Limit poker however where it's just an extra big bet and not as expensive as a 1/2 or full pot size bet! Best be guided by your reads and how the hand developed.

**Pok 7's** · 03-02-2006

I've thought about this myself before (and I can be completely wrong with this theory as I haven't been playing all that long), what I generally tend to do is bet at a pot like that even if it's a 3 flush on the turn or river. My thoughts are this:

If he has the flush on say 4th or 5th street there's a good chance he'll reraise, and I can have a better understanding of where I stand (i.e. have may have made his flush). The downside is if they did make a flush it's a perfect slowplay for the 4th street scenario. If he didin't make a flush my bet will put the pressure on him to decide whether I made a flush or not, and makes him think abut how much he likes his hand. I figure if I'm going to check and call him anyway I might as well bet. A check in a situation IMO can serve as a great bluff attempt for the other person if they're an aggressive player.

Someone who's more passive though may think you made a flush if you do bet at it and they'll throw their hand away. Anyone in between might also be concerned about a check raise and just check it down with you.

**binaryc** · 03-02-2006

A good move with top 2 pair on a 3 flush board is to bet something like 1/3-1/2 the pot on the river. It will often save you money where the opponent will call when he would have bet the pot if you had just checked.

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