Hey guys,

I've been trying limit recently. And want to know what you think about my play on the river in this hand...

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 2s, Qc.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (6 SB) Tc, Jc, 7c (6 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, Button checks.

Turn: (3 BB) Kd (6 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP2 calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB folds.

River: (6 BB) 2d (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG folds, MP2 folds.

Final Pot: 7 BB
Main Pot: 6 BB, won by Hero.
Pot 2: 1 BB, returned to Hero.

Results below:
Hero has 2s Qc (one pair, twos).
Outcome: Hero wins 7 BB.

How would you like the bet if I didn't make a pair on river? I figured 1 BB to win 6 is ok?

Now this next one is like the exact opposite. how would you guys play the turn?

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 4h, Kh.
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 9c, 4c, 5h (5 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 8h (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, MP1 calls, CO folds, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 8d (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, MP1 checks.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB
Main Pot: 7.50 BB, between BB, MP1 and Hero. > Pot won by Hero (7.50 BB).

Results below:
BB has 7d Qh (one pair, eights).
MP1 has 3h 2h (one pair, eights).
Hero has 4h Kh (two pair, eights and fours).
Outcome: Hero wins 7.50 BB.

Hand one, I might have bet the flop to see where everybody else was, then check it down, depends on the players at the table.



Hand 2: What The Hell are you doing calling out of position with bottom pair vs 4 players??? This is a bet or fold situation, better yet checkraise if you want to play it at all and everybody el;se folds to the BB's bet, otherwise FOLD. Check/Call is a VERY VERY BAD play. It is a loser 95% of the time.

On the turn you do it again, with a straight draw on board. 67 is a very likely limp, check/call hand here.

Why didnt you bet the river? If you think your hand is ahead on the turn then you just improved on the river, BET!

This play screams of Weak Calling Stationitis.

Play hard or go home. playing weak will get you dominated or outdrawn.

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so you don't like the bet on river marm?

Regarding hand 2 call. Yeah I would never do such a call with it in NL, and assumed I was behind. But I was getting 8:1 on my money, assuming 4s Ks and the backdoor flush draw were all live, then I couldn't see folding here. Also, it was vs 3 players not 4, and I closed the betting...

oh, and the reason I'd want to bet the turn isn't because I think I'm ahead... I wanted to bet the turn because I liked my outs...

Cheers,

Mike

hand #1 you cant bet the flop with nothing to see where you are?? you will get called by at least 2-3 and be out of position with no hand... not sure how you would suggest betting the flop. i doubt a club is a good card here. im surprised they folded on river i guess they all had clubs, but most of the time there is a guy in there with a pair on the flop that will call you on the river.

#2 i probably raise the turn. you will get called by both or so and have 14 outs/FE/possible best hand. marm he has the odds to call. this is limit. plz dont give advice if you dont know what you are talking about.

also betting that river would be pretty dumb. just check it down and see if its good


limit = math. 8:1 = 12%~ mike had 6 outs(back door FD = 1) on flop which = 25%~ sounds ev+ to me

if he doesnt improve on turn he folds facing a bet unless all of them call (dno if the odds are there or not). also you can calculate in an extra big bet on the turn or river if you hit your card at 25/5 limit

I pretty much agree with Marm on hand 1. I would bet the flop with the flush draw, not to see where I am in the hand though. On the turn I would bet again. I am really surprised you picked it up on the river.

Hand 2, the pot is too small to draw to such a weak hand.

In hand #2, I sort of agree with Marm about the play on the flop. I think that it would have been better to either bet it and see if you get raised, or check-raise it and see if you get re-raised to get a feel for where you stand. At this point in the hand, you're banking on the fact that you have 5 outs, but that's based on an assumption that you are up against just an overpair at worst. Betting into other players and seeing how they react might help improve your read on whether you might have run into a set.

One other reason why you might want to bet the flop is to protect your hand. The board presented some draws (flush and straight), and in these games, you probably won't drive out the players who have those draws. However, lots of players will also play any Ace (and quite often, any face card if its suited), and that's someone who you might want to get out of the hand. That can often be accomplished by some aggressive betting from players in early positions.

Thanks very much for the responses guys.

I'm surprised that so many didn't like the line I played in hand 1. But to be honest I don't see why I should bet on the flop at all. Who cares where everybody is? I don't want to start a fight in a hand where all I have is Q high and a weak flush draw, out of position. Geeze, I thought the line I chose was great! If any of them had a hand they woulda bet on flop. K arrives I have lots of outs. So I win when I hit on river, and sometimes win when they muck.

Regarding hand 2: Like hand 1, I don't want to start a war out of position with such a weak hand. If I bet and someone raised then I think it becomes -ev for me. --- Basically I felt my hand was strong enough to call but not raise with. Especially with the 2 callers ahead of me. the pot was small sure, but so was the bet :P.

Thanks for all the help guys, I learned a lot.

Cheers,

Mike

Good
Good
I check here too, you're drawing to the third nuts and could be dead if UTG or MP2 is trying to c/r here(or CO /Button is trying to be tricky lol)
Assuming you bet the turn here, you have to evaluate your opponents. If there is a better than 17% chance they both fold, you bet here. This seems pretty unlikely though. I call down with A high or any pair here. If you're opponents do call with A high and you hit the two, you can probly bet if there is around a 15% chance they fold.

__________________
“There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what you're talking about.” - John von Neumann

wtf? hand #2 is simple. the math was there............
more often than not his hand is good rather than being dominated.

limit = math!

I'll explain that in a minute, I basically agree with what you are saying. Actually I completly agree, I'm just trying to explain it a bit more.

__________________
“There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what you're talking about.” - John von Neumann