Hello everyone,

I've been reading the site for a while now and have learnt a lot from you guys, anyway I've taken the step to joining and posting up a couple of hands for discussion so you can rip apart my play and hopefully improve my game further.

I've been playing for about 6 months now and mainly use WPTonline.com - 5p/10p NL - 5 handed. The games are very loose and there's a lot of chasing of draws etc. I don't mind this because I know over the long run I'm getting profit from this, but I'm continually finding myself in situations similar to what happened last night :

I was one off the button (5 handed so I suppose this is MP) and I get dealt AdQd.
There is one limper in front of me so I raise 4x BB.
The guy on the button calls (habitual chaser) and everyone else folds.
The flop comes 4c Qc 8h
I figure that I'm ahead so I bet the pot to cut off odds for the flush draw.

The button calls and I now strongly suspect he's on the flush draw - against a better player I'd be worried about a slow-played set, but on this site that would be an auto all in!!!!

The turn is Th and once again I bet the pot.

Once again I'm called.

The river is 6c.

I'm now stuck - do I check fold or bet and fold to a raise? I feel as though I should check, but I'm worried that other players will pick up on this and use it against me. If I bet out I'm just pouring money down the drain, but I'm no hand reading genius and I could have got him all wrong?

Is this just because I'm out of position or is there something I should be doing different earlier in the hand?

I would bet this river. Many times this could be Ace high or a pair calling. The pot is pretty huge, and im a sucker for trying to take big ones down. maybe bet a little and hope he just calls. Cheking is an option too. In fact you can do anything. It al depends on what you'v seen him show down. If he makes these chase looking plays with crappy pairs, then id bet.

Im soo tired right now. I put 4 weeks of school work off for tonight. Its worth all the free nights thouugh.

You have to bet something here as a defensive bet to avoid the bluff. He could have KQ QJ etc and a check is inviting him to knock you off the pot.

The exact amount is the tricky part, certainly less than the pot, perhaps less than half. If he reraises big you know you are beat, if he calls you may be ahead, and very occassionally he'll fold his missed straight or A high. If you bet a smallish amount here you will only have to win one in 3ish to make it a profitable move in the long run.

I must play WPT.. the games look very soft..

From what I've seen there 5p/10p plays like pennies on poker stars.

In NL if a large bet preflop late won't take the blinds - there is litle point in making it.. What happens is the pot grows and you end up having to over value top pair- if you have a large stack you can get into real trouble. If you have two others in and they are calling.. well yuk.. you dont know what they have. Strange but what I found was that it is more proftable to make small bets against loose players and big bets against rocks. In the above situation - if you know they will call just make a minimum raise. This keeps the pot small and it is easier to bet 2xpot against chasers (actually cost less). It is easier to fold and destroy the pot odds more cheaply postflop.. A really loose player will even call with crap...

People at this level are generally passive: make a small increase in your bet from flop to turn. This is a very aggressive thing to do - even though you total commitment to the pot is little more then your orignal 4xbb bet. If he has hit.. he will let you know. You could try a post oak bluff on the river..a very weak bet- If he's got QJ he will call - if hes hit the srt8 he will explode.. He may try bluffing it.. BUT.. the pot is very small so he may think whats the point- Because he might think that you've been drawing too!!!

Play it like you've hit the draw and are building the pot then hit the flush yourself and you're trying to eak out as much value from the cards as possible.

Remember you are not playing him.. he is playing himself... let him answer the questions.. he'll get them wrong.. You'll find that if he has hit the flush with 72 suited.. he'll actually believe you have Ax s.. so he wont get very aggressive anyway.

If he's chasing a flush, calling 2 pot size bets certainly puts him in the fish/call station level of play! Any player who understands odds at all wouldn't be chasing a flush with these bets.
If he's as likely to bluff as chase, I think a check-call might sometimes be a good strategy on the river. That is - induce a bluff. If he was calling own 2nd he may bet for value for you; if he was chasing a flush he will be denied the re-raise option and his bet will likely be less than large trying to get you to call. If he checks thru, you may lose a little if you have the bet hand but you save a little if you don't.

Thanks for all your responses they've been very helpful and gave me a lot to think about.

The pot had actually grown to about 9 pounds so I bet 2 more on the river and he called and turned over 10c7c. I just smiled and started writing up the hand in his player notes. I'll get that money back off him.

xxdemexx - WPT online is very soft. I can turn a decent profit most nights, but then you just get those days when every draw hits (against you) and it can drive you mad. The only problem with the site is that the software is prone to crash a lot - they've just upgraded, but it's still not without fault.

Originally Posted by Meldon

The pot had actually grown to about 9 pounds

Wow! What's the street value of 9 pounds of pot?

- That would be worth chasing a flush for!!

Originally Posted by Girevik

Wow! What's the street value of 9 pounds of pot?

I never clicked on at first but once i realised what you meant i was in stiches for a good while!

Originally Posted by Girevik

Wow! What's the street value of 9 pounds of pot?

For the high end stuff, around $23,000. So if you get a bulk discount, about $20,000