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Go Back PokerForums.org > Strategy Discussion > General Poker Strategy > Is there anything wrong with this...

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Old 02-08-2006, 08:08 AM
Pok 7's's Avatar
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Default Is there anything wrong with this...

Or was this just a bad beat..the guy was pretty much a donk, playing alot of hands, getting aggressive and his chip stack was fluctuating so much you'd think he was playing NL.

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with , . MP2 posts a blind of $0.25.
3 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 (poster) checks, 2 folds, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) , , (5 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Button raises, SB folds, Hero 3-bets, MP2 folds, Button caps, Hero calls.

My thinking here was if he has me beat he'll be just as aggressive on the turn. But should I not have been as aggressive?

Turn: (7 BB) (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

River: (9 BB) (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 11 BB

Results in white below:
Hero has Kh Qh (one pair, queens).
Button has Th Kc (straight, ace high).
Outcome: Button wins 11 BB.
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Last edited by Pok 7's; 02-08-2006 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 02-08-2006, 08:42 AM
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I like the aggression on the flop - MP2 has already called one bet, so you know he's calling one more. Raising may well knock him out with a flush or straight draw. No way could you have put the button on a straight draw after capping the flop - I'd probably have put him on two pair, or maybe a strong Q with a flush draw. I may have just check-called it down after the flop, though.
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Old 02-08-2006, 09:15 AM
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I think you should bet the turn as he may have been on flush or straight draw. I would definitely check - call river as if he was on any of the draws he hit, plus if he is a maniac he may even have been on the Ax top pair draw and now be beating you. Your lucky he was afraid of the flush and didn't raise, unless you would have folded if he did.
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Old 02-08-2006, 10:11 AM
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Raise pre-flop, big suited connectors are always worth a raise against a field of limpers.

Your flop and turn play were good, and based on your read your river play was good too. I might have checked the river, and tried to induce a bluff though against a decent opponent.
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Old 02-08-2006, 10:42 AM
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With the button capping the flop, I would suspect 2 pair - Q & J - as these are playable cards to limp in from LP. Capping K-T was not something I would have done but I'm also not looking to force out players with a drawing hand. Once he just calls the turn however, I'm thinking I have a better hand and he has TP worse kicker and it would be just this thinking that would discount the Ace as being of any use to him on the river - he would/should have raised pf with A-Q or A-J!
Not really a bad beat imo, just a fish getting lucky!
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Old 02-08-2006, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phytopath
Raise pre-flop, big suited connectors are always worth a raise against a field of limpers.

Your flop and turn play were good, and based on your read your river play was good too. I might have checked the river, and tried to induce a bluff though against a decent opponent.
Even from the blinds? I tend to think that I might be better off just taking a flop and play from there. Seems like there's a catch 22 situation here, I'm not getting anyone out with a raise, and being out of position can put me in a tough situation post flop. I can see the other side of the coin also, where I can lead out post flop and see how the table reacts also regardless of the flop.

But in the experience of people who have a large # of hands with situations like this, is there much of a difference in EV between raising and just checking in a situation like this?
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Old 02-08-2006, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phytopath
Raise pre-flop, big suited connectors are always worth a raise against a field of limpers.
This is probably off topic, but here I go anyway:

Maybe this is just me, but can something like KQs really be considered a suited "connector". To me, the value of connectors has always been the straight possbilities. Something like JT gives you 4 possible straights using both your cards (jack high through A high). With KQ, you can only make two straights using both cards (K high and A high), which to me really takes away it's value of being "connectors".

Don't get me wrong, KQ's top pair potential more than makes up for the straight possibility value, but is it really fair to call them "connectors" in the sense as something that can make more straights?
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Old 02-08-2006, 12:01 PM
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Personally, I like the play and I'm playing it the same way here. He could have been on the draws, but he could have been playing something like Qsmaller kicker and was frisky. Unless you had a read on him I am capping the flop and betting each round. If he's on the draw, you want him to pay to make it. If you've already got him beat, then that's more money for you.

Given the way the hand played out and looking at the results I'm marking this guy down and trying to play with him again. Not very often you get a guy who'll cap with a OESD and odds are he won't make them most of the time so you want to be at the table with him.

Good hand, good play, bad result, we're not results oriented here though

On the suited connectors post by Gir...I've always thought that the value of the connectedness was not only how many str8s they make (ie: with the JT hand) but also how easily it is to make a nut str8 and still use both cards. When you have 1 gappers, it seems more likely that one of your cards may not be used to make the str8 and thus their value goes down. Since with KQ or 65 you have a much better chance of using both cards to make the nut str8, their value goes up (in regards to the str8 draw).

While JT does the same thing, and it makes more str8s, their top pair value is low, therefore you tend to look for a str8, end up flopping TP only to have an overcard come on the turn or river and bust you...

That's far less likely with KQ...but because it's going to use both cards to make the str8, the value is about equal (in my book). I'll limp with JT and KQ in the same situations at a ring table, but I prefer to have KQ...
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Old 02-08-2006, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trons
On the suited connectors post by Gir...I've always thought that the value of the connectedness was not only how many str8s they make (ie: with the JT hand) but also how easily it is to make a nut str8 and still use both cards. When you have 1 gappers, it seems more likely that one of your cards may not be used to make the str8 and thus their value goes down. Since with KQ or 65 you have a much better chance of using both cards to make the nut str8, their value goes up (in regards to the str8 draw).
Then I talk about "connectors", I'm referring to cards that are consecutive in rank - I'm not including one or two gap cards in here. In that sense ALL "connectors" have the same likelyhood of making the nut straight.
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Old 02-08-2006, 12:23 PM
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I am wondering if it may be better to wait to the turn to bet, or go for a check-raise o that flop.

The flop is very ugly and draw heavy.

You really don't want to see an A,K, T, 9, 8 or a club on the turn, and you will not be able to protect on the flop.
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