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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2006, 07:54 AM
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Default Should I have raised the river?

In situations like this is it generally best to raise the river or was I okay in just calling?

PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with , . CO posts a blind of $0.25.
2 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (4 SB) , , (4 players)
SB bets, BB calls, Hero raises, CO folds, SB calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (8 BB) (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

River: (14 BB) (3 players)
SB checks, BB bets, Hero calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 17 BB

Results in white below:
SB has Qs Kc (one pair, queens).
BB has Qc 9s (one pair, queens).
Hero has 3h 3c (three of a kind, threes).
Outcome: Hero wins 17 BB.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2006, 07:56 AM
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I'd say raise. The BB will about always call, so your getting one more bet. Best case if you just call is that the SB also calls and you break even. Those times he folds to one bet you lost that bet. When you raise, on the other hand, and the SB DOES call the two bets cold, you've made that extra bet.
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Old 02-07-2006, 08:02 AM
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I just wasn't sure if raising in this situation is a better decision when a possible flush draw completes on the river. Curious if, over the long term raising in situations like this would earn more if I raise instead of just calling against more than 1 opponent.
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Old 02-07-2006, 08:50 AM
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All the action on the flop doesn't make me think anyone is on a flush draw.
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Old 02-07-2006, 09:17 AM
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The action doesn't make alot of sense on the flop, my initial thought was maybe that the SB was on a big draw, something like 5d6d or AXs, thats why he was betting out. He would be the only one I was afraid of having hit the flush.

The BB, he got in for free so he could have all sorts of junk, but he seems to really like his hand. Not sure why he donked the river like that.

I probably wouldn't have raised on the river, since you are in the middle with a fairly strong hand, you are probably better smooth calling and going for an overcall against the SB.
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Old 02-07-2006, 09:20 AM
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I would say yes, you should have, but I probably would have just called myself. The SB checks saying he def does not have the flush and is concerned about his hand. He would have raised a higher set. The BB 3betting the flop after just calling says to me that he has a Q but doesn't love his kicker. This rules out the FD from him since he would need two Qd in the deck...lol.

Its easy to see these things when I have time to read the hand history, but its a little bit harder while in the action.

Does this make sense to you or should I try to explain it better.
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Old 02-07-2006, 09:41 AM
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actually, i think calling here would have been just as good of a move.. because u got the sb to call too.. if u raised, the sb probably wouldn't have called and so you probably would have made the same amount of money.. moreover if u raised, and BB had the flush, then u would have lost a little more right?
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Old 02-07-2006, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipse86
actually, i think calling here would have been just as good of a move.. because u got the sb to call too.. if u raised, the sb probably wouldn't have called and so you probably would have made the same amount of money.. moreover if u raised, and BB had the flush, then u would have lost a little more right?

But that was my first point. By just calling, you MAY get the SB's extra bet, but not always. Calling averages you less than one more bet then, right?

By raising, you will pretty much always get the BB's call, plus you will sometimes get the SB's smooth call. By raising, unless someone has the flush (in this case it think it's fairly likely that he might have called with his top pair), I think you average MORE than the one more bet.
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Old 02-07-2006, 11:06 AM
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Default

Guesstimating the form the play:

SB has a mid-weak Queen. BB has two pair.

I raise this river. The only hand we are afraid of is 44. QQ doesn't make sense, anybody that has the moxy to Bet that hard each street AND bet the river when the "scare" card hits, would be guranteed to raise QQ PF. Set over set is rare enough, and he really donked this if he has a flush draw, that A river raise is a good value bet.

Now lets look at the results...... Close enough.
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