I play in a game with a calling station, with one tight aggressive player, and two maniacs. This is very low limit because we are high schoolers. Buy in is 10 dollars (u get double the amount of chips) with rebuys and .25/50 blinds. I have been losing a lot. So tonight after reading a book by phil gordon i decide i will play mathematically correct poker using the rule of four and pot odds. Now both times I had dominating position (flopped trips and flopped two pair) I bet out on the flop and the turn and the river kept on giving my opponents the better hand. I bet about 2 to 3 dollars on each round of betting. If I only have 20 in chips what is an appropriate amount to bet seeing that these ppl like to call with top pair and draws. Also any tips on how to finally beat these guys would be awesome. I played extremely tight playing only pocket pairs and suited high cards with few exceptions. Is that right? I know this may just be a bad beat story but i have had ongoing bad beats so there must be a way for me to take down pots without letting my opponent draw (they don;t even think about pot odds). Also how long is an appropriate learning time because i have lost approximately 200 dollars and as a jobless teenager this is very costly. At the same time I know I am getting much better. I know this is long but please help me out. Much thanks

honestly, if you are playing 5 handed, you can't afford to play weak. I suggest you play all hands with an Ace. I also suggest you play all hands with both cards above a Ten. play 22-AA. also when in position and no one has raiseed, play suited connectors.

the table you describe is extreamly tough. Although im sure you can spot some weaknesses. I guess you are a Tight players, so they will probably respect you when you enter a pot.

I suggest you put your $ online or invite some crappy players to your game, b/c besides the calling station, this is a tough crowd.

Bluff @ the right time a little maybe. When they seem weak (but not as if they are slowplaying) bluff. And bluff HARd.

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any more tips?

Change the blind structure to .10/.25, invite some more players.
Essentially you want the maniacs to act in front of you, and the calling station to act behind you.

Against the calling station, overbet your hands.
Against the idiots, you want to be checking/calling inducing them to bluff off all their chips to you rather than you betting into them.

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A good education is expensive but ignorance costs more.

Can i raise hard preflop to eliminate crap hands and just do that with marginal hands or is that a recipe for disaster?

more than one maniac at a table, especially at one so shorthanded, is a recipe for either great success, or, more likely (for newbies) disaster. If you feel like youre a better player, change gears once in a while and play like a maniac....scare them back and dont let them feel like they can take advantage....catching them once in a while with their own style of play will likely cool them down a bit and respect your play/cards... I know it wont be easy to all of a sudden start "throwing in" lots of money and raising all the time, but the "tame the maniac" strategy has worked for me (and usually at other games I ve watched) in that they usually simmer down a bit and start respecting people's cards....good luck and hope you catch a winning streak

Alright.

My advice would be that in teh long run if you stick to a tight aggresive game you will come good against players who don't know about strategy and odds.

I think that the low limit means that you tend to get players playing more cards than at higher stakes games.

against nutters, play extremely tight. But when you get a half decent hand bet aggressively as you are most likely ahead.

I agree with everything said here, But one thing I haven't heard off is along teh lines of starting a tournment. A maniac in a tournment structure might do extreamly well, granted even become a massive chip leader... but the majority of the time he will make one bad mistake and boom... he's dead. Also, you've got the advantage of survival. Maniacs don't know how to float in a tournement, but by the sounds of it you're well aware of the patiance involved in the game, as well as the knowledge of when to make plays against your opponents. If you invite a good few people to your game, you'll have a bigger chance (I play regular live cash and tournments. The cash games are usually 6-9, and the tournment we've just had, 38 people signed up for). Now I see Maniacs with a large stake infront of the regulaly at the cash games, but not once have I seen one of my crazy payyoff friends at the final table (The final table is an extreamly tough, big stack battle of wits. We got there once with the average stack at the table was around $54,000 playing blinds of just $400/$800, and managed to last 6 1/2 hours)

So yeah, in short try playing a tournement, either a payout of 50%/30%/20% or a bigger cash game.

Also, don't get downhearted. Remember, you don't have a problem spotting the fish, you just need to figure out how to hook'em.

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A Few Things not to say at a Poker Table.

"You've already checked... I'm pretty sure you can't raise now..."

"All the same suit and runnin' is a good hand, right..."

"Call..."

don't worry about it. you flopped trips once and 2 pair once and bet correctly both times but lost. This will even itself out in the long run.

take a brake from the playing.. think how you gonna play before the game! Hmm.. tight, aggressiv, loose! Loose players = play tight, Tight and weak players = Loose and aggressive!

Love the game..