if i have say AcTh, i call minimum raise from the bb, and its a 4 way flop.

942 rainbow. Ill check, this, and i want to get 7:1 on my $ to call for another street. figure 3 aces and 3 tens are good, =6/47 = 1:7.83 odds, throw in expectation of getting paide if you hit (implied) as well as bluffing and taking it down.

so the flop = 8bb, blinds, check, utg+1 bets 2bb, co calls, sb fold. its 2bb to call for a 12bb pot and the call would be very loose.

Originally Posted by gder03

figure 3 aces and 3 tens are good, =6/47 = 1:7.83 odds

the 6/47 is saying 6 will win it (hypothetically) and 41 will lose it. so if you think the ace, or ten will win it, make the call when the odds are correct. all the other cards, are calculated a losers.

however if you call flop, and the turn pairs the board, you might not have 6 outs anymore for the river (b/c he might have 3-kind now).

so when you have AK, or two overs, you wanna be getting 7-8:1 on your $ to make the call. this is only when you think the opponents is not playing a strong hand.

a common mistake is calling with cards thinking you have more outs than you do (situations when pairing your card is not enough).

calling with 4:1 odds instead of say 7:1 on the flop is dangerous because you never know what your opponent(s) will do on the turn. when someon bets the flop, (even if its weak) you should expect the action to continue on the turn (unless a scare card hits).

So you are caluclating the odds correctly, if its 8:1 on each street, then by the end of the hand its 4:1 that you hit. But, those odds are only correct if it is a guarantee that there won't be action on the trun. (so usuall only in all in situations its a guarantee)

often times i call the flop with the draw, miss it, and then face another big bet on turn and am forced to fold b/c i stupidly said to myself "maybe he wont bet the turn"

Originally Posted by razorburn

So I get a min bet post flop, a bunch of limpers, and I think there's just a weak pairing, on a rainbow flop, with no or very small str8 possibilities.

Gder, I think I may have been applying pot odds incorrectly if you're using those odds. The 7-1 odds you got is for drawing a pair on the turn, right? When you're counting both the turn and river, you have odds that are approximately half that. Should I play pot odds by each street individually, or from the 2 street perspective on the turn, and then individual odds for the river? Like I have a flush draw, I have around 2-1 odds for completing the flush on either the turn or river. But about 4-1 odds on either the turn, or the river. Should I not call to see the turn if I have 2-1 odds?

Don't confuse drawing odds with the odds being given by the pot. Yes you're odds of drawing to six outs is 3.1:1 for 2 draws and 6.7:1 for a single draw BUT if the pot is not giving sufficent odds for a single draw (7:1) you're not getting the required pot odds to reward the risk.. If you used 3.1:1 for 2 draws as the basis for calculating required pot odds, you would need to get BOTH draws for the price of one and that most usually doesn't happen. You can shave pot odds a bit by using implied odds but the basis of pot odds vs draws odds should still be on a single draw at a time!