If the odds are there, are you obligated to call?

Mr.McJ · #1 (**permalink**) 02-02-2006, 02:30 PM

Or should I have folded on the flop and/or turn?

Quote:

Texas Hold'em $0.25-$0.25 NL (real money), hand #76,418,403
Table Pensacola, 2 Feb 2006 05:28 PM

View Previous | Next hand for this table.

Seat 1: flaak ($26.40 in chips)
Seat 2: maddogi ($14.15 in chips)
Seat 3: Boots311 ($12 in chips)
Seat 4: J__D ($25 in chips)
Seat 5: MrMcj [AD,KD] ($25.65 in chips)
Seat 6: --grumpy-- ($15.55 in chips)
Seat 7: lough... ($13.40 in chips)
Seat 9: djc47x ($37 in chips)
Seat 10: likemally ($19.90 in chips)

ANTES/BLINDS
djc47x posts blind ($0.15), likemally posts blind ($0.25), Boots311 posts blind ($0.25), lough... posts blind ($0.25).

PRE-FLOP
flaak calls $0.25, maddogi folds, Boots311 checks, J__D calls $0.25, MrMcj bets $1.50, --grumpy-- calls $1.50, lough... folds, djc47x folds, likemally folds, flaak folds, Boots311 folds, J__D calls $1.25.

FLOP [board cards 6C,QD,4D ]
J__D checks, MrMcj bets $3, --grumpy-- folds, J__D bets $6, MrMcj calls $3.

TURN [board cards 6C,QD,4D,5C ]
J__D bets $5, MrMcj calls $5.

RIVER [board cards 6C,QD,4D,5C,8H ]
J__D bets $4.50, MrMcj folds.

SHOWDOWN
J__D wins $31.65.

SUMMARY
Dealer: lough...
Pot: $32.15, (including rake: $0.50)
flaak, loses $0.25
maddogi, loses $0
Boots311, loses $0.25
J__D, bets $17, collects $31.65, net $14.65
MrMcj, loses $12.50
--grumpy--, loses $1.50
lough..., loses $0.25
djc47x, loses $0.15
likemally, loses $0.25

Aces-o-8s · #2 (**permalink**) 02-02-2006, 03:23 PM

You have two overcards - worth seeing the turn but when you don't improve you have to figure your too far behind and 6.7:1 to connect on the river. Even if you catch an Ace or King, your opps might also have that card for 2 pair - folding time imo.

Mr.McJ · #3 (**permalink**) 02-02-2006, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aces-o-8s

You have two overcards - worth seeing the turn but when you don't improve you have to figure your too far behind and 6.7:1 to connect on the river. Even if you catch an Ace or King, your opps might also have that card for 2 pair - folding time imo.

But what about the flush draw? Am I not 4 to 1 to make my flush on the river?

Beavis68 · #4 (**permalink**) 02-02-2006, 03:54 PM

if you do not call when you have odds you are losing money.

you could have played the flop harder, you have great equity.

I am not a NL cash guy though.

Mr.McJ · #5 (**permalink**) 02-02-2006, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beavis68

if you do not call when you have odds you are losing money.

you could have played the flop harder, you have great equity.

I am not a NL cash guy though.

Play the flop harder? So bet bigger or re-raise his check-raise?

Beavis68 · #6 (**permalink**) 02-02-2006, 04:19 PM

uhm, yes.

Mr.McJ · #7 (**permalink**) 02-02-2006, 04:49 PM

So what do you think he had then? Do think I could have pushed him off the hand?
(Unfortunately I didn't have much of a read on the guy as I hadn't been sitting at the table long.)

PJ of TheGame · #8 (**permalink**) 02-02-2006, 08:28 PM

He could have had anything from AQ to QQ to 23s for his flush draw. I wouldn't mind getting your money in here on the flop, especially if you're the one betting.

Eclipse86 · #9 (**permalink**) 02-03-2006, 12:21 AM

i probably bet the potsize here on the flop.
if he min raises, then call and try to catch that flush.
if he leads out again on the turn - im figuring that he has at least AQ, and that the A is a dead out for you, either that or he has flopped a set and both your A and K are dead outs.

PJ of TheGame · #10 (**permalink**) 02-03-2006, 04:01 AM

On your question... it's a much bigger error to fold a pot where you have proper equity, then to call one where you are a bit short of proper odds.

Say you have 10% equity and are getting only 8-1 to call. calling with bad odds here costs you .1 of a bet (spending .9 bets to protect .8 bets equity). Now say you're getting 9-1 to call... folding costs you .9 bets, which is 9 times as big a mistake.