I need some MTT help im feeling useless right now.

**surftheiop** · 01-14-2006

First some background i mainly play 5 and 10 mtts with 120-200 people in them that pay out 10 or 20 depending on the amount in the field, i average playing about one per day. I've had (very) limited success but have managed to make 3 final tables in the last 3 -4 months (which for all practicalness means ive monied only a couple mores times than that). I managed to take a 2nd place worth 230 which is the only reason i have seen profit from these tournies.
Now to my problem. I cant seem to build a stack early unless i hit a premium hand (AA KK QQ pf) , hit a flop with AK or AQ, hit a set with a small pair, orhit a flop with suited connectors or the such. after 50 minutes the blinds are at 50/100 and im left with about 1300 chips if one of the before mentioned things havent happened (which is well over half of the time).

At this point im forced to give up playing the connectors and if i dont get a hand soon its 75/150 and i have to start making the short stacked pushes, which i seem to have gotten very good at choosing the right spots/opponets etc. ( i guess im in this postion all to often) and usaully double up through taking some blinds or getting called. Then after a few more rounds of "normal" M play im back in the same position and usaully end up busting out in 20 - 35place pushing something like KQs in an unraised pot.

I know people are going to tell me to be more aggresive or take more risks early. I just dont really know what risks to take or how to make a stack without the assistance of cards or without hitting flops with atleast top pair( should i be betting mid/low pairs aggresively?). Some HH examples of risks/aggression you all make early in tournies would be great. I asked alot here but have couple more questions ill ask if they dont get answered in your responces.
Thanks and please dont rip apart my grammar, i know it sucks so your not adding anything to the thread.

**tdq** · 01-15-2006

As soon as you get down to 20bb or so you might start playing weaker hands like AJ AT KJ and so on. I'd rather take the chance of being dominated than to have to push allin with A3o because i'm short stacked... Not a tourney expert, but aggressiveness always worked for me.

Exemple : If there are antes and I have a 20bb stack, I don't mind betting 5 bb with AJo and calling an allin raise. Even if you're an underdog, you probably more than double your chance of winning the tournament if you double up here. Being dominated isnt as bad as it seems...

**Dizzy_Fuzz** · 01-15-2006

In the very early levels you can afford to be looser than normal, and play hands you normally wouldnt to possibly trap an opponent or get lucky and take down a big pot. I think that there are two possible ways to build a stack in tournaments and thats by winning small pots on the flop if you hold something like TPTK on a board of 2-9-5 or something, since sometimes you will get people with overcards call you and othertimes they will fold.

You need to steal pots and win as many pots as you can playing this method since if you start with 2000 or 1500 then a pot of 150-200 is a 10% increase in your chips which is great.

The other way is to take a coinflip, say if you get JJ very early on and you raise to 5xBBs and someone reraises all in then you have a decision to make, if you really think you they dont have QQ-AA then personally im calling this since if you double up this early on you have more chips to play with and this makes pot stealing easier, people dont like playing against people that have them outstacked 2-1 this early in the tournament, well this is my experience with it anyways.

The trouble with this method is that your taking a possible 53:47 coinflip just to double your stack up and this puts your tournament life at risk - I personally prefer the first method - Im just very aggressive with any hand I hold, I will limp in the first round with a lot of hands if the flop is cheap.

If you had something like 86 offsuit and it was only 20 chips to see then im limping with this nearly everytime to try and spike a flop like 57x or 68x or even 66x, since a flop like the 2nd two are likely to pay off since some opponents wont expect it. If you do flop a real monster like two pair with no possible flush/straights on board you could try for a check raise on the flop if you know your opponent will fall for it since if hes bet once into the flop hes more likely to call a 2nd time and push all in on the turn.

The concept of MTTs is that you cant be afraid to get your chips in the middle, you will have to undoubtly at some point and whether its early on or not depends on if you dont mind the risk of busting out early on.

Play loose for the first level or two if they are cheap - look to see cheap flops and fold if the flop doesnt suit your cards, look at the table and whos likely to be someone to give you all their chips, since in MTTs its important to know/recognise opponents that are likely to give their chips away cheaply. Tighten up for the next few levels and get aggressive whenever you have a hand, for instance you could open the raising with J10 offsuit or even 89suited, if you liked - since these hands are deceptive and pay off greatly when they hit - just know when to back down if someone reraises you... and make sure if someone has already raised that you have a decent enough hand to call them with - since otherwise youll just get into trouble.

**Irexes** · 01-15-2006

Here's the crucial middle period of the MTT I played yesterday.

In among these hands there was also a lot of more standard plays with genuine strength and a lot of folding. But I picked these out as the ones where plays were not made on the strength of my hand but on the strength of my opponents. Although I don't tend to make a move unless I have some sort of outs if I am wrong, the following plays are not made because I have second or third pair or worse, but because through having observed my opponent I don't believe he either has the better hand or will let it go in response to aggression. I also tend to make relatively small bets to the size of the pot when bluffing. First because I think if timed right it is a good way to feign strength, and secondly because you can afford to get it wrong and let it go.

I only make these plays versus opponents who I have seen make laydowns. Against a calling station I would fold all of the following hands all day.

#Game No : 3369545391
***** Hand History for Game 3369545391 *****
NL Texas Hold'em Trny:19190179 Level:5 Blinds (50/100) - Saturday, January 14, 11:27:17 EDT 2006
Table $12K Guaranteed(567533) Table #2 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 2: NUTS_HAWG ( $6380 )
Seat 3: Irexes ( $3057 )
Seat 4: goirish555 ( $1980 )
Seat 7: flopMyNuts1 ( $1620 )
Seat 8: firftr2 ( $2220 )
Seat 9: ch08ryz ( $7098 )
Seat 10: GuntarsA ( $90 )
Seat 5: ririco ( $10400 )
Seat 6: MOENNA ( $615 )
Trny:19190179 Level:5
Blinds (50/100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Irexes [

]
goirish555 folds.
ririco folds.
MOENNA folds.
flopMyNuts1 folds.
firftr2 calls [100].
ch08ryz folds.
GuntarsA folds.
NUTS_HAWG calls [50].
Irexes checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [

,

]
NUTS_HAWG checks.
Irexes checks.
firftr2 checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [

]
NUTS_HAWG checks.
Irexes bets [325].
firftr2 folds.
NUTS_HAWG folds.
Irexes does not show cards.
Irexes wins 625 chips
Game #3369547865 starts.

Check-calling a small flop bet and then betting on the turn is a great move in the right circumstances.

#Game No : 3369547865
***** Hand History for Game 3369547865 *****
NL Texas Hold'em Trny:19190179 Level:5 Blinds (50/100) - Saturday, January 14, 11:28:00 EDT 2006
Table $12K Guaranteed(567533) Table #2 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 2: NUTS_HAWG ( $6280 )
Seat 3: Irexes ( $3257 )
Seat 4: goirish555 ( $1980 )
Seat 7: flopMyNuts1 ( $1620 )
Seat 8: firftr2 ( $2120 )
Seat 9: ch08ryz ( $7098 )
Seat 10: GuntarsA ( $90 )
Seat 5: ririco ( $10400 )
Seat 6: MOENNA ( $615 )
Trny:19190179 Level:5
Blinds (50/100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Irexes [

]
ririco folds.
MOENNA folds.
flopMyNuts1 folds.
firftr2 calls [100].
ch08ryz folds.
GuntarsA folds.
NUTS_HAWG calls [100].
Irexes calls [50].
goirish555 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [

,

]
Irexes checks.
goirish555 checks.
firftr2 checks.
NUTS_HAWG bets [100].
Irexes calls [100].
goirish555 folds.
firftr2 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [

]
Irexes bets [450].
NUTS_HAWG folds.
Irexes does not show cards.
Irexes wins 1050 chips
Game #3369551069 starts.

I got this one wrong thinking there were enough scare cards on the board although it was the river that saved him (also another one out of the blinds). This resulted in me flagging the guy as a one not to make similar plays against.

#Game No : 3369573248
***** Hand History for Game 3369573248 *****
NL Texas Hold'em Trny:19190179 Level:6 Blinds (75/150) - Saturday, January 14, 11:35:20 EDT 2006
Table $12K Guaranteed(567533) Table #2 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: NUTS_HAWG ( $5605 )
Seat 3: Irexes ( $3257 )
Seat 4: goirish555 ( $4550 )
Seat 8: firftr2 ( $3825 )
Seat 9: ch08ryz ( $6948 )
Seat 5: ririco ( $7973 )
Seat 1: doit33 ( $485 )
Seat 6: PLAY_MY_HAND ( $2825 )
Seat 10: poldpf ( $3279 )
Seat 7: harmon5733 ( $1746 )
Trny:19190179 Level:6
Blinds (75/150)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Irexes [

]
ririco calls [150].
PLAY_MY_HAND folds.
harmon5733 folds.
firftr2 folds.
ch08ryz folds.
poldpf folds.
doit33 folds.
NUTS_HAWG calls [150].
Irexes calls [75].
goirish555 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [

,

]
Irexes checks.
goirish555 checks.
ririco checks.
NUTS_HAWG checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [

]
Irexes bets [250].
goirish555 folds.
ririco calls [250].
NUTS_HAWG folds.
** Dealing River ** [

]
Irexes bets [300].
ririco calls [300].
Irexes shows [

,

] a pair of queens.
ririco shows [

,

] two pairs, jacks and eights.
ririco wins 1700 chips from the main pot with two pairs, jacks and eights.
Game #3369575736 starts.

This was a bit of a gamble, but I know the guy is good enough to laydown and I don't think he was min betting an Ace on the flop having watched him and certainly not checking the turn.

#Game No : 3369575736
***** Hand History for Game 3369575736 *****
NL Texas Hold'em Trny:19190179 Level:6 Blinds (75/150) - Saturday, January 14, 11:36:03 EDT 2006
Table $12K Guaranteed(567533) Table #2 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: NUTS_HAWG ( $5455 )
Seat 3: Irexes ( $2557 )
Seat 4: goirish555 ( $4400 )
Seat 8: firftr2 ( $3825 )
Seat 9: ch08ryz ( $6948 )
Seat 5: ririco ( $8973 )
Seat 1: doit33 ( $485 )
Seat 6: PLAY_MY_HAND ( $2825 )
Seat 10: poldpf ( $3279 )
Seat 7: harmon5733 ( $1746 )
Trny:19190179 Level:6
Blinds (75/150)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Irexes [

]
PLAY_MY_HAND folds.
harmon5733 folds.
firftr2 folds.
ch08ryz folds.
poldpf folds.
doit33 calls [150].
NUTS_HAWG calls [150].
Irexes calls [150].
goirish555 calls [75].
ririco checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [

,

]
goirish555 checks.
ririco checks.
doit33 checks.
NUTS_HAWG bets [150].
Irexes raises [400].
goirish555 folds.
ririco folds.
doit33 folds.
NUTS_HAWG calls [250].
** Dealing Turn ** [

]
NUTS_HAWG checks.
Irexes is all-In [2007]
NUTS_HAWG folds.
Irexes does not show cards.
Irexes wins 3557 chips
Game #3369579650 starts.

I tried to defend my blind here and push out the limper. It went wrong with the calls, but the flop gave me a chance to be the first to put me chips in. Again my opponents were good enough to fold.

#Game No : 3369599572
***** Hand History for Game 3369599572 *****
NL Texas Hold'em Trny:19190179 Level:6 Blinds (75/150) - Saturday, January 14, 11:42:49 EDT 2006
Table $12K Guaranteed(567533) Table #2 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: NUTS_HAWG ( $4755 )
Seat 3: Irexes ( $2632 )
Seat 4: goirish555 ( $4325 )
Seat 8: firftr2 ( $3040 )
Seat 9: ch08ryz ( $6648 )
Seat 5: ririco ( $8338 )
Seat 1: doit33 ( $1005 )
Seat 6: PLAY_MY_HAND ( $3200 )
Seat 10: poldpf ( $5404 )
Seat 7: harmon5733 ( $1146 )
Trny:19190179 Level:6
Blinds (75/150)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Irexes [

]
goirish555 folds.
ririco calls [150].
PLAY_MY_HAND folds.
harmon5733 folds.
firftr2 folds.
ch08ryz folds.
poldpf folds.
doit33 folds.
NUTS_HAWG calls [75].
Irexes raises [450].
ririco calls [450].
NUTS_HAWG folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [

,

]
Irexes is all-In [2032]
ririco folds.
Irexes does not show cards.
Irexes wins 3382 chips
Game #3369602522 starts.

Here's one against the calling station which finally allowed me to build my stack. His flop call screamed overcards or draw and the low turn and river gave me the chance to screw him for chips. I'm sure he had overcards here.

#Game No : 3369673146
***** Hand History for Game 3369673146 *****
NL Texas Hold'em Trny:19190179 Level:8 Blinds (150/300) - Saturday, January 14, 12:02:43 EDT 2006
Table $12K Guaranteed(567533) Table #2 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 2: NUTS_HAWG ( $11071 )
Seat 3: Irexes ( $3622 )
Seat 4: goirish555 ( $6605 )
Seat 8: firftr2 ( $4416 )
Seat 5: ririco ( $6263 )
Seat 7: harmon5733 ( $8488 )
Seat 1: vivaldi ( $5610 )
Seat 6: bigabcww123 ( $11132 )
Seat 9: Ztarsky ( $8882 )
Trny:19190179 Level:8
Blinds (150/300)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Irexes [

]
bigabcww123 folds.
harmon5733 calls [300].
firftr2 folds.
Ztarsky folds.
vivaldi folds.
NUTS_HAWG folds.
Irexes calls [300].
goirish555 calls [150].
ririco checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [

,

]
goirish555 checks.
ririco checks.
harmon5733 checks.
Irexes bets [1000].
goirish555 folds.
ririco calls [1000].
harmon5733 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [

]
ririco checks.
Irexes bets [1000].
ririco calls [1000].
** Dealing River ** [

]
ririco checks.
Irexes is all-In [1322]
ririco folds.
Irexes does not show cards.
Irexes wins 6522 chips
Game #3369678490 starts.

The basic idea for me is to work up my stack without having to rely on big moves preflop (though they have their place) and build in the 2nd and 3rd hour of tournies with post flop shenanigans based on the nature of my opponents. I really don't worry about getting it wrong and getting knocked out because until the latter stages of the tournament it's all about building chips rather than preserving life.

**surftheiop** · 01-15-2006

thanks alot, i think i have been playing way too tight at the beginning of tournaments and am letting too many chances go. Irexes the last hand was especially informative to me because i wouldn't limp something like that with less than 10 M. I also think that for some reason when i hit 10 M i shut down my game and just try to wait for cards. Thanks so much for the time all of you took to comment.

**Irexes** · 01-15-2006

No worries.

On that last one I only limped because of the ep limper (who was very passive) and because I had position and was hoping for a ragged flop, 56o is not a hand I play for it's own value very often

**surftheiop** · 01-15-2006

i know, i meant that i am often blinded to what the oppurtonities are given by the table because i see bad hole cards and just hit the auto fold.

**Irexes** · 01-15-2006

I think that's spot on. And the reverse is being seduced by good hole cards and neglecting to notice that the other guy clearly has better ones

**JokersWild** · 01-15-2006

I recommend "Tournament Poker for Advanced Players" by Sklansky and the two tournament books by Dan Harrington.

**surftheiop** · 01-15-2006

ive read harrington's book's its the application thats getting me

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