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Go Back PokerForums.org > Strategy Discussion > General Poker Strategy > Pot Odds or survival in a tourney?

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2005, 02:10 PM
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i agree with Beavis that survival in tournaments, especially Big field MTTs is for the birds.

You need wins not places to make money.

Like I said in the other thread, if I double up early in a sit and go I am roughly 90% to place and my chances of winning go up dramatically than if I hang on and squeak into the money.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-16-2005, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-O
And this is against 9 other players as good as me which I don't think will ever be the case
ahhh, don't give up steve.
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Old 12-16-2005, 02:15 PM
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you have to post the whole quote you, taking it out of context donk

Quote:
And this is against 9 other players as good as me which I don't think will ever be the case in a $10 SnG.
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Old 12-16-2005, 05:12 PM
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To the OP.

Read on page 44 & 45 of Harrington on Holdem again.
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Old 12-17-2005, 09:13 AM
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I think that in a Sit 'n Go and MTT you have to focus on winning and not surviving. To much time I see people who are tighter at the end of the tournament... I think that you need to have a big streak or win huge pot in a tournament to be effective. Fear are often your worst ennemy... you don't have/want to fear to put your tournament life at stakes on a draw or something like that.
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Old 12-17-2005, 10:15 AM
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On pages 234 thru 238 of Harrington on Hold'em Vol ll, Dan lays out 3 scenarios where is Player A:
> has 41 M @ $37,000 and is in top 10 of tourny
> 60 players remain and 30 will be in the money
> he is 2nd to act but 1st in with AKo and
> he raises 4xBB - $1200

Player B:
> is in CO
> Scenario 1 - raises to $5000 from a stack of $11,200
> Scenario 2 - raises to $5000 from a stack of $16,200
> Scenario 3 - raises to $5000 from a stack of $8,200

In each case Player B's raise is folded around to Player A for a H2H play. Player A knows that it is likely he will have to re-raise to put B all-in pf or B will likely raise all-in on the flop. So Based on pot odds, Dan shows:
> Scenario 1, pot odds are fairly acceptable but that the bet (raise B all-in) "increases the volatility of his position in the tournament without increasing his equity" so he elects to FOLD here.
>Scenario 2 - pot odds are only marginal and do not favour putting B all-in but due to implied odds would be worth a CALL against anyone except a super-tight player.
> Scenario 3 - pot odds are favorable and putting B all-in becomes mandatory.

I don't think anyone is going to accuse Dan of not playing to win the tournament vs just surviving to get into the money. But as I read Dan's book, survival is essencial to winning and picking your spot according to the situation is as much about winning as "In order to live, you must be willing to die." which is what I believe Beavis was referring to in referrence to pg. 44 & 45 (Vol l). A lot of info has to be process in a very short time such as your M, your Q, position in tourney, you opponent, his M, his stack, your stack, table positions and of course your hand, his probably hands and a few other things I should mention but you can read the whole book(s) yourself. Point is, there is no Yes or No answer and 'it all depends' becomes the standard reply to these hypothectical questions. So Hypothectically, "Yes" and " No" - it all depends!
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Old 12-17-2005, 10:30 AM
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Great example Aces.

Remember I stated that when the money is a lot ways off, chip ev is my only consideration. Here you are close to the money and have a much better than average chip position. Your tournament equity is also a consideration.

Being in the top 10, you can afford to be more careful about who you tangle with.

Even if you aren't near the money, if you have a stack much larger than average, I feel it is something to be protected. You don't want to get into big confrontations with someone that do serious damage to you without good overlay from the pot.

I am going to go re-read this section.
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Old 12-17-2005, 11:28 AM
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For scenario one, he figured your pot odds are 1.33:1 and you are a 1.2-1.3:1 dog in the hand.

You are getting almost 0 overlay. A player with an above average expectation in a tournament shouldn't commit a lot of chips without some decent overlay.

In scenario 3 he is getting he figure he is getting 1.5:1 - that is enough for Dan.

The interesting thing about this hand to is, even though he will still have a good stack if he loses, he is looking for overlay from the pot.

Hacks like Steve Terry will just think "well, he can't bust me, so I will just call or push him all-in"
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Old 12-17-2005, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beavis68
Hacks like Steve Terry will just think "well, he can't bust me, so I will just call or push him all-in"
Who's Steve Terry?
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Old 12-17-2005, 02:07 PM
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http://www.pokerforums.org/showthrea...2328#post12328

He also thinkg online poker is rigged, he used to post on pokerypag3s, but i think he got tired of my calling him an idiot, and then proving it.
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