Do you call all-in's without the stone cold nuts?

**Pok 7's** · 12-08-2005

Granted there;s variables that are based on reads but IMO on line reads don't give you as much info as live play I don't think but let's look at what most ganes people want to be in, LAP/LPA.
For example: in a on line NL ring game you're holding a big pair like aces or kings and the highest cards on the board by the time the river comes are a Q,J or K,10 (you have Aces in this scenario so there's no set) with no straight or flush possibilites. On the river your opponent goes all in, do you call or fold because alot of the players in that particular game play any 2 big cards in any position.
Or you have a K high flush on the flop and the river puts 4 of the same suit on the board with no pair for a full house and no straight flush posibility and someone moves all in, only thing that beats you is an A of the same suit.
Hopefully this comes across the right way and you guys get the jist of what I am trying to say, I know there can be alot of "it depends." I remember someone posted on here a while back a saying "Don't call an all-in bet unless you're glad they made it." Just wondering some thoughts.

**traz** · 12-08-2005

it depends

**Pok 7's** · 12-08-2005

Originally Posted by traz

it depends

Figured there'd be at least one of these

P.S. I'm not talking about if it's only costing your a small part of your stack 1/2 to 3/4 of your stack or better, or someone moves al-in PF when you have AA. I'm talking after the river card.

**traz** · 12-08-2005

haha I know it was a dick response, but its the truth. These threads are WAY to general and situational. It all depends on previous action on other streets, the player, would he bluff, etc etc etc etc etc

There are times when I'd call with a K high flush with 4 to the board, and times when I'd fold it. Its too hard to say "yes" or "no"...post a specific hand and then I can let you know

**JokersWild** · 12-08-2005

In a NL cash game, it depends on the pot odds and on the player. In a NL tourney it depends on much more.

In general you need a much better hand to call all-in than to push all-in.

As for some examples, if you have a K high flush and are facing an all-in, I would say most of the time you are facing an A high flush. As for a non-flush, non-straight board, an all-in usually means a set. In some cases it might mean two pair and for really bad players it might mean TPTK.

You also need to look at what position the all-in was made from. Was it a lead out bet? a raise? a reraise? a checkraise? This might give you a clue as well.

Yes, some people will bluff all-in from time to time. You need pretty decent stones to pick up on this.

**Pok 7's** · 12-08-2005

Yeah I know it's kind of a general question, I don't have a specific hand in mind, it's one of those "I was thinking about the game" moments. Besides even if I dug through to find one it tends to be "a bad beat that just happens sometimes."

Sometimes it's not even my hand I'll watch 2 players and say to myself "well one of these guys has the ____". Usually it tends to be a "miracle card", possible completed gutshot, or scare card like an ace for example when you're holding KK and there's one a Q or J on the board up to the river, or a third flush card that hits on the river where you felt you were ahead the whole time and you just can't get rid of the guy with your bets and he just unloads on the river.

**Pok 7's** · 12-08-2005

Let's say an overcard or a third club/diamond hit's the river, yes I know the board paired

(and If I played this lousy I'm sure you guys will let me know

) Honestly I'd appreciate it if you did

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (7 handed) converter

BB ($12)
UTG ($6.80)
Hero ($5.25)
MP2 ($5.55)
CO ($13.45)
Button ($7.30)
SB ($10.15)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with

,

.
UTG calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.4, 1 fold, CO calls $0.40, Button calls $0.40, 2 folds, UTG folds.

Flop: ($1.45)

,

(3 players)
Hero bets $0.7, CO folds, Button calls $0.70.

Turn: ($2.85)

(2 players)
Hero bets $1.3, Button calls $1.30.

River: ($5.45)

(2 players)
Hero bets $2.85 (All-In), Button folds.

Final Pot: $8.30

Results in white below:
Hero has Qd Qc (two pair, queens and threes).
Outcome: Hero wins $8.30.

**traz** · 12-08-2005

bet more on the flop and turn (probably have to go all-in on the turn)...you're giving him alright odds to draw.

As played, you don't have enough money to fold the river here, and definitely not to an overcard. It feels like this guy has clubs, and you have to make him pay more to draw to clubs.

But perhaps to answer your question more...if stacks are deeper, and the river is a club...you bet the river, and he raises all-in, I fold.

**Pok 7's** · 12-08-2005

How much would change let's say if we were both chip leaders but he had me covered. On the river his raise would cost me a large portion or all of my stack same example and I still couldn't chase him away with bigger bets?(it's a bluff or he made his hand) I'm not trying to be a pain in the ass here just trying to decide if it's worth making calls like this or waiting for something better.

**traz** · 12-08-2005

What are we talkin about...if the river is the 2h (orginal) or its a club?

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