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  1. #1
    Chaser fenriz's Avatar
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    Default Calling raises with Asuited

    I`m at a $25NL table at Paradise. I`m $7 down with $18 in chips.
    I`m dealt in second position and call (.50c/.25c are the Blinds)

    It`s a full table and after one other player limps a guy in MP raises to $1.50
    The Button,SB and BB all call so i decide to as well. The guy who also limped called so we`re five handed for the $7.50 pot

    Flop
    It`s checked to me and knowing the initial raiser will probably lead out i check also. The lead better raises to $2.50. The BB calls and so with $12.50 in the pot i also call. The limper calls behind me so we`re now three handed for a pot of $15.
    Turn
    BB checks, the limper and i also check and the lead out guy raises to $3.
    BB folds and knowing i`m about 5/1 i call. Limper calls and the pot now stands at $21.50
    River
    I go All-in with my last $11 and both opponents call. A nice pot of $54.50.
    The limper actually had and the initial raiser didn`t show but proceeded to give me a hard time...mainly about the pre-flop call of his $1.50 raise.
    I know my play post flop was ok percentage wise but was my initial call right, or was he correct in his criticism?

  2. #2
    Poker Hustler nu2mdwst2's Avatar
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    Default

    First off, the guy shouldn't be berating you for your play, but I'll give you a quote from CardPlayer magazine for this:

    "Experienced players who aren't in the game just for thrill of the gamble know that A-x suited in early position isn't much of a hold'em hand"


    It's pretty to look at, but the simple fact is that you are not going to win with this hand most of the time. You will have to basically have to make three 2's or a flush to feel safe. With the ace, you will be outkicked 90% of the time in a full ring game, and even if you hit two pair you will be vulnerable.

    This is a hand you really don't want to play in early position, because you absolutely don't want to have to call a raise with it. You then are playing the rest of the hand with a marginal holding OOP, and that's a recipe for disaster

  3. #3
    Chaser fenriz's Avatar
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    Default

    Your right of course, Asuited is generally a bad hand for me, but .50c is such a piddling amount that i`m gonna call most of the time at that level in that position to see what happens behind me. If the guy had raised say to $2.50 and hence got fewer callers i would have folded.

  4. #4
    Poker Hustler nu2mdwst2's Avatar
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    Default

    yeah .50 is a piddling amount, but you have to look at it in relation to blinds. It is one big blind. By calling this out of position you are setting yourself up to throw money away, either when they raise and you call (and most of the time miss the flop), or like you said, when they raise a bit more and you fold. When you do that you're just throwing a big blind away every time, whereas if you do it in position, you have less of a chance of losing extra money.

  5. #5
    Chaser
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    Default

    There's no way I'm playing A2s in a raised pot EP

  6. #6
    Check Raiser Aces-o-8s's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fenriz
    I know my play post flop was ok percentage wise but was my initial call right, or was he correct in his criticism?
    Initial call for 2 suited cards in the pocket going for a flush (and with A-2s that is all you should be thinking about as nu2mdwst2 advises in his post) requires 15:1 odds to make a flush by the river so to call the raise you needed $15 in the pot (expressed odds). You're never going to get these pot odds pre-flop so implied odds are required - implied odds as you may already know is the amount you figure you can extract from your opps based on future bets up to and including the total size of their stacks. If your raising opps had at least $10 that you could add to the $6 already in the pot, to give you 16:1 combined express and implied odds to make the call.
    So for your friend to critize you're pre-flop call, he has to ignore the fact that he has a stack you can reasonably count on collecting at least $10 from - if you hit your flush. Of course you had 2 opps so the sums are even easier to gather - only $5 each to justify a pre-flop call.
    check out www.homepokergames.com/odds for a table on common poker odds.
    Last edited by Aces-o-8s; 12-07-2005 at 06:04 PM.

  7. #7
    Mike McDermott gder03's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fenriz
    I`m at a $25NL table at Paradise. I`m $7 down with $18 in chips.
    I`m dealt in second position and call (.50c/.25c are the Blinds)

    It`s a full table and after one other player limps a guy in MP raises to $1.50
    The Button,SB and BB all call so i decide to as well. The guy who also limped called so we`re five handed for the $7.50 pot
    limping early with A2s is stupid
    calling more pf b/c "i guess im getting some kind of odds" is also dumb imo.
    A2 5 ways? why would you wanna make top pair? Going in with intent on hitting a flush is poor strategy. IM guessing this hand eather cost you alot, or payed you off.
    I get more ass than a toilet seat. All shapes/colors/sizes.

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  8. #8
    Super Moderator WotaWaster's Avatar
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    Surely A2s 5 ways is far preferable to A2s 2 or 3 ways in a raised pot?

    Playing A2s in a 5 way pot with the intention of making top pair would be dumb. If you are prepared to bet the flop when 2 diamonds hit, and also able to check and fold if no diamonds hit and an ace does, then I don't see why you shouldn't play it (for correct price and in late position).

  9. #9
    Poker Professional Pok 7's's Avatar
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    Default My .02

    Quote Originally Posted by fenriz
    Your right of course, Asuited is generally a bad hand for me, but .50c is such a piddling amount that i`m gonna call most of the time at that level in that position to see what happens behind me. If the guy had raised say to $2.50 and hence got fewer callers i would have folded.
    Maybe my thinking is flawed but if you're playing to learn "optimal" play I would think you would relate the blinds to the game, not what the $ means to you. If it were a 25/50 or 50/100 game are you making the same call and playing the hand the same way? If you were playing just for the hell of it and don't care about the outcome then it dosen't really matter what the best play might be.
    If you're looking to borrow money or have someone give you money in order to play poker online please don't contact me... Click Here for help , and explain your situation.

  10. #10
    River Rat Jiffman's Avatar
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    Default

    BUT....

    .....THEY WERE SOOOOOOOTED!!!!
    Nobody ever bet enough on a winning horse
    - Anonymous

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