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  1. #1
    Check Raiser growlers's Avatar
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    Default Where did this go wrong?

    No read on Villian in PT but table was worse than usual in general.
    Critique each street.
    Thanks!

    PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

    Preflop: Hero is MP2 with , .
    4 folds, Hero raises, 4 folds, BB calls.

    Flop: (4.50 SB) , , (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, BB calls.

    Turn: (5.25 BB) (2 players)
    BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.

    River: (9.25 BB) (2 players)
    BB bets, Hero folds.

    Final Pot: 10.25 BB

    Results in white below:
    BB doesn't show.
    Outcome: BB wins 10.25 BB.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis68
    Quit playing poker.
    Quote Originally Posted by backdoor
    First of all you foul mouthed imbecile. I think the value of forums is immeasurible. Forums are the one place you can learn the game. Forums are a learning medium. The problem I find in forums are, your post. We are talking to hot headed, juveniles, who have no clue what they are doing. You have to weed through posts such as yours to get valuable information.

  2. #2
    Mike McDermott gder03's Avatar
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    Default

    i dont play lim, but ill sya: like betting flop, but dont like the call or three bet after the chek raise. turn, im glad he cheks and chek also. he chek raises you agin, u gotta let go now imo. bb was telling you he has you on the flop and turn, yet you still persue your strait.

    in NL your bluff/agression on this hand may have worked, but in lim, its harder to get people off their hands.
    I get more ass than a toilet seat. All shapes/colors/sizes.

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  3. #3
    Poker Hustler nu2mdwst2's Avatar
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    Default

    hmmm....

    Preflop- I have to admit, I don't like playing this hand at all...Maybe if it's folded to me on the button I'll bring it in for a raise, but most likely I'm folding it. However, if you do decide to play at, at least raise it, so as far as that goes it could be worse.

    Flop- A check for a free card wouldn't be terrible, but a continuation bet is the right way to go. But when he check-raises you, what is your 3-bet going to accomplish? I don't think it does anything except put more money into a pot in which you're behind in. You can't really "take control" of this hand with a 3-bet, because he's shown quite a bit of strength with his checkraise. I think the best thing to do here is just call.

    Turn- His check is a weird play here. Did he hit that stongly? Is he trying for a free card? Does he really think you'll bet here so he can checkraise again? I can understand your not really being able to make sense of this play, but I think checking would probably be best here. You still have a good draw and getting this check from him is an unexpected, yet pleasant, surprise. Betting doesn't do much, because I doubt he's folding, and you're probably behind. Take the free card and check/fold if you miss. This will ensure you lose the least amount of money possible for the times your draw doesn't hit.


    You came out and played this hand aggressively, and there is something to be said for that. Just make sure you look out for OOP checkraises, because they usually signal a semi-strong holding, and know when to put on the brakes. By the way, what do you put him on? Seeing the way this went I'd say he either slowplayed KK preflop or had KJ...

  4. #4
    Fish Food Gondorff2000's Avatar
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    Default

    growlers!
    What happened there?
    A9o in MP is max one small bet preflop - no raise!
    Your test-bet on the flop is arguable - 1 bet!
    But then things escalated quickly
    That guy trapped you (twice in a row) and you still kept not only chasing your outs but also defending a non-existent hand.
    A BB calling 1 raise is very likely to hold 2 suited cards, connectors(w/ one or two gaps) or any pocket pair.
    So either he really knows nothing about poker, just didnīt care, knew you exactly or -most likely- he flopped at least two pair.
    Meaning you needed a Q (4 outs), maybe a 7 (4 outs) or Mr. Runner-Runner who probably couldnīt have helped you either.
    And you donīt want to bet on such things.

    I would have limped preflop, and checked it down - and lost max 1 small bet.
    Last edited by Gondorff2000; 12-07-2005 at 07:05 AM.

  5. #5
    Fish Jackemy's Avatar
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    Default

    An arguement can be made for raising preflop especially if everyone behind you is very tight. I wouldn't consider this play at a 2/4 table unless this condition was met as most 2/4 tables have enough lose player to not make this play profitable. So generally, I'd toss this in the muck, I would not limp with this hand.

    So you got a good result and your heads up. You don't give us a read on your opponent so here are a couple generally guidelines heads up:

    Tricky player bet out with weakness and check strength when first to act. Tend to take the free card on the flop if this player is aggressive and tricky as a free card won't hurt you.

    With a tight player your semi-bluff play is fine as there is a good chance you'll pick up the pot right there but you have a lot of outs if he calls.

    With the check-raise on the flop. I am calling down to the river due to pot and implied odds of your straight draw and possible ace outs.

  6. #6
    Check Raiser
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    IME wierd raising patterns like that usually equal a set.

    On your play though... as has been said, if it gets checked to you on the turn after you raised a draw, take the free card!
    -You may not know this, but poker is a game of incomplete information.

  7. #7
    PokerForums God
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    What was that advice I gave you before?

    It would be interesting to see your thoughts on each round.

    Man, you fell for the double check-raise.

  8. #8
    Fish ShOwTiM3's Avatar
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    I don't think that betting your draw in limit is the optimum play except if you have a flush and a open handed straight draw at the same time and that wasn't the fact here. Even if you don't catch it and you hit an A I'm really not sure that you have the best hand. Maybe the bet on the flop was a good play but the 3-bet wasn't for sure in my opinion. After the flop I would check/call. Maybe it's a weak play but in limit I don't think that betting draws is a good play.

  9. #9
    Poker Hustler
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    I like the raise PF, essentially you are trying for a steal and you may have the best hand.

    Flop, betting is good, getting check raised doesn't really mean anything heck alot of people do that. 3-betting, probably doesn't accomplish anything here I would guess that this is your mistake.

    Since you 3-bet the flop you could take your free-card and hope to complete your straight though your opponent will probably pick up on it. However, he check raised you here and there is a good chance you are now drawing dead here, but the pot is big enough that you have to call the one bet.

  10. #10
    PokerForums God
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    showtime, you are a little two tight, there many situation where raised only a flush or an OESD is a good play.

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