What did I do wrong?

**Spike_Guy** · 12-06-2005

This has happened to me about five times in the last week on various hands ranging from $10 - 80. It's been killing my bankroll over and over. My thinking is when I nut the hand with no obvious straight and flushes possible that beat me, to all in and I suspect my opponent who is drawing should fold or lose most of the time. Except I'm losing most of the time. What am I doing wrong? Should I not be all-in and just put a solid pot bet? Do I just suck?

$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, December 06, 13:54:51 EDT 2005
Table Table 65164 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Lobell ( $22.75 )
Seat 2: crazymaniac3 ( $22.55 )
Seat 4: Zgusto ( $36.58 )
Seat 5: Spike_Guy ( $38.25 )
Seat 7: TA1979 ( $41.87 )
Seat 8: pa_kettle ( $10.25 )
Seat 9: larsthepe ( $17.05 )
Seat 3: transyl ( $6.65 )
Seat 10: MB555 ( $25.49 )
Seat 6: Solids1 ( $26.65 )
Solids1 posts small blind [ $0.10 ].
TA1979 posts big blind [ $0.25 ].

Holecards:
Dealt to Spike_Guy [

]
FOLD pa_kettle
RAISE larsthepe, $0.75
FOLD MB555
FOLD Lobell
CALL crazymaniac3, $0.75
FOLD transyl
FOLD Zgusto
CALL Spike_Guy , $0.75
FOLD Solids1
FOLD TA1979

Flop:
[

]
CHECK larsthepe
BET crazymaniac3, $1
RAISE Spike_Guy , $2
FOLD larsthepe
CALL crazymaniac3, $1

Turn:
[

]
BET crazymaniac3, $3
ALL-IN Spike_Guy [ $35.50 ]
ALL-IN crazymaniac3 [ $16.80 ]

River:
[

]
crazymaniac3 shows [

] a flush queen high .
Spike_Guy shows [

] a straight seven to jack .
Spike_Guy wins $15.70 from side pot #1 with a straight seven to jack .
crazymaniac3 wins $43.90 from the main pot with a flush queen high .

Thanks in advance, I'm really discouraged this is recurring to me.

- Spike

**Girevik** · 12-06-2005

I wouldn't go all in there, you want to bet around 1/2 to 3/4 of the pot and HOPE he calls because he's making a mistake. He made a bigger mistake by calling the all in and got paid off - nothing you can do about a fish catching lucky.

**Marm** · 12-06-2005

Yeah, overbetting the pot is dumb. Put in a 4/5th or so sized pot bet, that way he is not getting odds to call, and you are still makeing a large bet. Then when the flush hits, and he pushes like he will probably do, then you can release the hand.

Always leave yourself an out. That, and if you keep doing this, it's called: "A Tell" Ya'know, the things that give away the true strength of your hand. Always bet the same regardless if your bluffing or have the nuts.....

**Beavis68** · 12-06-2005

Never go all-in with 80% Pot Equity.

WTF?

If you know people are going to call, push it. What is up with this - always leave yourself an out - crap. Are you really going to fold a straight to a runner runner flush on the river when the other guy was betting the whole way?

What was the point of the flop min raise though?

**SpikeWasHere** · 12-06-2005

Never go all-in with 80% Pot Equity.

I don't know exactly what that means, other than I probably shouldn't have gone all-in with the nut hand against a ~20% draw I guess (which I don't understand but I'll follow the advice for awhile).

The flop raise was weak, I'll agree given my position and quality of hand though I don't think that would have changed the outcome looking at what he did bet and call.

Thanks again for looking at this.

- Spike

**The Real DeCoy** · 12-06-2005

^^Beavis is a sarcastic bish. He was saying WTF to Marm's advice of not going all-in. Beavis thinks you should have pushed because you were 4-1 favorite.

I actually diagree with you about the flop. If you bet the pot which by math was about $3.60, you are in effect saying that you have paired the Jacks to his 7's. When his 4flush comes on the turn he may raise you or check to you. If he raises you its probably not going to be much since he should put you on a pair of J to his 7, but he might bet with his odds for the flush on the river. Here you could call for a cheap card or if you have great skills you might raise. I don't have those skills yet. If he checks to you you have the option of a free card.

Again, I suck at NL so don't follow my advice until one of the heavy hitters critiques my thinking.

Stick around though because thats the beauty of this site. You post what you are thinking and then you get the feedback where you are right or wrong. I've learned a ton so far.

2+2 Forums is also great for this, but the forum layout has to be the worst I've ever seen since Yahoo Forums were the ish. I'd rather refresh this site 1MM times than follow the threads over there.

**nu2mdwst2** · 12-06-2005

Beav, the min raise on the flop might be able to buy him a free card on the turn... as it turns out, he didnt need it, but why not min raise? are you saying you shouldnt raise at all, or you should raise more?

**Aces-o-8s** · 12-06-2005

I didn't like the pre-flop call. UTG+1 came in with 3xBB raise and MP1 (crazymaniac3) called - (with a hand like Q-7s he can change his name to crazymoron3). If hero didn't have a hand that was at least as good as a raising hand from UTG, he should have passed and avoided the sh*t he got himself into.
Dan Harrrington refers to starting out with premium hands so you have fewer tough decisions post-flop and this is just the kind of situation I believe he was refering to. Girevik also nailed it "nothing you can do about a fish catching lucky".

**Beavis68** · 12-06-2005

Call or raise more. I don't really know if you WANT a free card here, if you raise that puny amount, check the turn, then bet the river when your draw hits, how profitable do you think the hand will be? i think a larger raise disguises the hand better. But I don't know anymore.

And on the all-in, the players are bad enough to call big all-ins, then why not make them? That is my only point. If you can reasonably expect a call, the make the play.

**Gondorff2000** · 12-06-2005

A classic!

Happened to me so many times.
Your mistake was indeed the weak post-flop betting.
You had position on this guy and his bet of less than half the pot was more like checking out if you hit or missed the flop and you answered "yes the flop is nice but not really nice

".
As long as you don´t hold the nuts you should take the pot while you can.
You were drawing on a monster with 12 or more lovely outs.
But you don´t want him in the pot you want to take it right away.
His bet did neither represent an overpair (too small a bet) nor an already winning hand like two pairs or trips (which both you would have mastered when hitting an out). So considering his preflop play I would have put him on AK, maybe KQ or middle pair. To find out where you are at raising his weak bet four or five times might have been right. If he called I´d have put him on AKc,KQc, drawing on the nut flush followed by a pot bet on the turn.

excellent NL books are Harrington and Phil Gordon´s Little Green Book

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