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  1. #1
    Fish
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    Default Bad play or bad beat?

    Bad beat or bad play? I got wiped out in a home tourney recently and I don't know which it was.

    At a three-person table:

    Dealer raises 1bb

    small blind folds

    I've got and I call.

    Flop comes off

    My thinking: I didn't read him as having 2 hearts. I wanted to bet big enough to take down the pot and move on. On the other hand, if he did call, I felt really sure I was ahead at that point with a made flush and straight-flush draw, even though there were obviously draws that could beat me.

    So I went all in. Dealer calls and shows

    Turn: River:

    Down I go... so my question to you folks is did I make a good percentage play or was I foolish to make that kind of move with what I had in hand on the flop?

  2. #2
    The Forefather KiD[ReD]'s Avatar
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    Default

    There's a lot of missing information here, such as what the dealer did on the flop. Did he check? Also, you say "I didn't read him as having 2 hearts." there is absolutely no way you can even guess at this on a 3 person table like this.. how do you know?

    The other piece of missing information is chip stacks.. if you were low stacked, then going all in is good.. otherwise, chipstacks, his playing style, your past plays etc all come into play.

    But this wasn't a bad beat. he had 35% to hit his flush, plus he could hit and Ace or 2 to beat you (in his eyes) if his flush doesn't hit, giving him another 6 outs.
    KiD[ReD]
    Ex-Owner/Administrator
    Merendi Networks Inc. (Merendi.com)

  3. #3
    PokerForums God the alex's Avatar
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    Default

    1.)Bad call on his part, mathematically, in the moment? Maybe.

    I say that because he probably thought that he had 12 outs which would justify his call.

    2.) Bad beat? No.

    Losing as a 2:1 favorite isn't really a bad beat. A bad beat is when a dominated hand outdraws the dominating hand. Though, I don't like the term bad beat because poker success is measured in the long term "one long session" numbers. You win making this move, more often then not in the long term.

    3.) Bad move on your part? No.

    I say this because you believed that he would fold, but underbetting the pot would give the information that you need because you're telling him that you have at least one heart, meaning that you can probably beat a pair on tens or have a heart. He would have problems raising you here, but if so, then going all in is definitely the right move. But this is a tourney and one hand can make you dead money, no matter how good you play on all of the hands prior to this and on this hand. Looking to fold to a fourth heart or moving in on the turn to no heart works better for you in your efforts to win money in tournies.

    Yes, you were the favorite and no, the gamble doesn't stop at the end of the tourney, but the mindset of protecting your chips while protecting your hand is key to profitting in tournaments.
    Quote Originally Posted by FaDi View Post
    GodFadiR (12:32:45 AM): but lets be honest
    GodFadiR (12:32:48 AM): who doesnt wanna fuck me
    WotaWotaWota (12:33:22 AM): I do
    WotaWotaWota (12:33:27 AM): in tehanus

  4. #4
    Poker Expert NoManner's Avatar
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    Default

    You ran into a bad hand, my guess is that you were short enough at the time that made him feel he could make that kind of call. You played right, he played "right", you got unlucky

  5. #5
    Poker Hustler eclinchy's Avatar
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    Default

    12 outs? This means you think he thought aces would be good?

    Not so sure... if there's an all-in in front of him, he may have guessed that he needed the flush.

  6. #6
    PokerForums God the alex's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eclinchy
    12 outs? This means you think he thought aces would be good?

    Not so sure... if there's an all-in in front of him, he may have guessed that he needed the flush.
    You're supposing that this is a good player. He raised with A2, which isn't bad with any two cards opening the pot on the button, but it was for 1 BB. He was building the pot looking for an Ace.
    Quote Originally Posted by FaDi View Post
    GodFadiR (12:32:45 AM): but lets be honest
    GodFadiR (12:32:48 AM): who doesnt wanna fuck me
    WotaWotaWota (12:33:22 AM): I do
    WotaWotaWota (12:33:27 AM): in tehanus

  7. #7
    Poker Hustler eclinchy's Avatar
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    Default

    Hmm, I suppose you're right. Good point.

  8. #8
    PokerForums God Marm's Avatar
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    Default

    Well according to quite a few posters on the poker forums out there, it should have been a split pot.
    Marm is back, maybe. Been off for 3 years. Rusty as Hell.

    Luck is a Residue of Design.

  9. #9
    PokerForums God the alex's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Marm
    Well according to quite a few posters on the poker forums out there, it should have been a split pot.
    HAHAHA!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by FaDi View Post
    GodFadiR (12:32:45 AM): but lets be honest
    GodFadiR (12:32:48 AM): who doesnt wanna fuck me
    WotaWotaWota (12:33:22 AM): I do
    WotaWotaWota (12:33:27 AM): in tehanus

  10. #10
    Fish
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    Default Thanks

    Thanks all for the responses. In hindsight, I probably am just too loose when it comes to swinging the all-in stick.

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