So last night I decided to take a shot at a step up from the penny tables and was doing pretty good I was up for a while but had this and another hand which was a big loser. The other one I had QQ OTB and was up against pocket KK and pok AA (believe it or not) and everyone was all in post flop with no big cards or possible draws. The table was fairly tight alot of hands ending before the showdown with an occasional maniac popping in here and there. Looking back on the hand I was thinking maybe I should've went all in on the turn? Which looking back may have been the correct thing to do, if anyone agrees that I should've pushed all in on the turn how many people would've...and be honest![]()
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (7 handed) converter
BB ($16.90)
UTG ($5.05)
MP1 ($3.65)
MP2 ($6.55)
CO ($21.25)
Button ($12.10)
Hero ($5.80)
Preflop: Hero is SB with,
.
1 fold, MP1 calls $0.10, 2 folds, Button raises to $0.4, Hero calls $0.35, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.30.
Flop: ($1.30),
,
(3 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, Button bets $0.3, Hero calls $0.30, MP1 folds.
Turn: ($1.90)(2 players)
Hero bets $0.7, Button raises to $1.4, Hero raises to $2.2, Button calls $0.80.
River: ($6.30)(2 players)
Hero bets $2.7, Button raises to $5.4, Hero calls $0.20 (All-In).
Final Pot: $14.60
Results in white below:
Button has As Qs (flush, ace high).
Hero has Ah Kd (one pair, aces).
Outcome: Button wins $14.60.
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Results 1 to 10 of 11
Thread: Did I play this bad?
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11-29-2005 #1
Did I play this bad?
Last edited by Pok 7's; 11-29-2005 at 06:56 AM.
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11-29-2005 #2
I don't like your call on the flop. You're calling a half-pot sized bet with nothing but two overcards, and 2 of your six "outs" could be dead to a flush draw. If you think you're best raise, if not fold.
I'm CDO. It's like OCD, but everying is in order just like it should be.
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11-29-2005 #3
First let me qualify - I'm a limit player and I don't play NL except in tournaments so take this for what it's worth.
Going all-in is a great T.V moment but unless it's called for, it's best left in the war bag until actually needed. I try to look at NL betting as 90% formula and 10% inspiration and you will find all kinds of books and DVDs from the pros who provide varying opinions on what makes an appropreate bet. In general, a pre-flop raise to enter a pot should be 3-5 times BB and a re-raise should double to triple the entry raise.
Post flop, betting should be based on pot size and what you're trying to accomplish. A very strong hand may want to bet a minmum raise to entice others into the pot while a vunerable hand will want to cut down odds with a 1/2 to full sized bet and a weak hand and/or bluffer might over-bet the pot to lessen risk/reward to a caller.
In your case and on the turn the pot was $1.90 and your bet was $0.70 and was just over a 1/3 of the pot giving Button $2.60 to $0.70 or just short of 4:1 odds - just what he needed (along with his top pair 2nd best kicker) to proceed. To be honest, while I saw the flush threat on the flop, the betting didn't suggest he was on a flush draw but I still thought your bet of $0.70 was on the weak side and suggested you wanted to keep the Button in the pot. If you wanted to close out, I think you bet should have been at least $1.00 and up to $2.00 going for a win right there. Going all-in would have been an over-bet IMO and certainly shouldn't have been necessary.
That the Button raised and then just called your re-raise looked kind of promising but also indicated that he was going to showdown regardless. Looks like he has a pair of aces but isn't sure it's the best hand.
On 5th st. I'm not so sure saving $0.20 makes a hell of a lot of difference to a $2.70 bet vs just pushing it all-in right off
. Never mind, you're tied to this pot and if you're not all-in on your own, the Button would likely have put you all-in anyway once the bet/check swung over to him. I don't think you were going to shake loose the Button after the Ace fell on the turn even if you did go all-in and even if it was for more $$ than the Button had in his stack - his hand was too good to fold and he had a flush draw to improve. One of you was going down and this time it was you - better luck next time!

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11-29-2005 #4Poker Hustler
- Join Date
- Aug 2005
- Posts
- 1,161
Why did you just call Pre-flop? If you had raised there you could have bet the flop, since you didn't I think you have to throw this hand away on the flop. What are you chasing a maximum of 4 outs, even those 4 outs could easily be reverse dominated since the button could have raised with alot of hands.
Really you shouldn't have been there on the turn, and in this case your opponent was going to call you anyway.
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11-29-2005 #5Fish Food
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
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- 16
Even though you didn't play this hand correctly I don't think you were going to get the button out.
If you raise pf he will call, he probably won't bet the flop which gives you a chance to raise pot which may get him to fold but with the nut flush draw I doubt it. The turn would give him an A and now I really doubt he is going to fold. So I don't think there was anything you could have done.
Cambece
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11-29-2005 #6
Honestly for some reason I have a tough time playing AK and I don't know why. Everyone talks about how it's a great hand but I seem to get my ass kicked with it (not just on this hand). Maybe I'm giving it too much credit, don't know when to throw it away, or have no idea on how to play it but I'm really starting to dislike the hand. My thoughts were this: I figured post flop I was only beaten by a pocket pair and his bet didn't seem big enough to try and shut me down like he had a big pair. So my guess on the flop was a big ace and he was making a continuation bet which, if he did have we were either tied or I had him out kicked. I ran the % through PT and PF I was ahead PF, flop was a coin flip with me as a slight fav. and I was a little over a 72% fav. on the turn (and at that point I thought I was ahead). I'll be honest I wasn't able to calculate the odds on the turn still trying to figure an easier way to do it for NL. I was thinking if I was ahead on the turn and (according to poker books) I wanted him to call in that situation
. Also considered the final spade could've been a scare to card to him making him. BTW the only reason the .20 was left over was I thought I had the slider all the way over when I hit bet. So basically I played this hand like crap??
Last edited by Pok 7's; 11-29-2005 at 08:29 AM.
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11-29-2005 #7Poker Hustler
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- Aug 2005
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- 1,161
Alot of the power of AK comes from folding equity, by raising you can get the other players to fold. By calling pre-flop, you are not displaying any strength and therefore you give up pretty much any possibility of winning the hand unless you hit an A or a K.
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11-29-2005 #8
AK is a the most powerful drawing hand in hold'em, but remember it's just a drawing hand. And as phyto says above, a lot of its power comes from folding equity.
I think if you slowed yourself down and asked "what am I looking for on the turn?", you'd quickly realize that you only have 4 outs (the same as an inside straight draw). Then ask yourself, "would I call with just the inside straight draw here"?
It's too easy to just keep thinking about what a great starting hand AK is, and ignore the reality that it takes 5 cards to make a hand. Slow down, if you're going to call, ask yourself "why am I calling?".
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11-29-2005 #9
I was hoping for an A or K on the turn for TPTK (bad wish?)
Originally Posted by Jason75
isn't there 6 outs (3A, 3K)? Not that that's alot of outs either. BTW I really appreciate the responses and I'm not trying to justify my play here but I'm asking questions to your replies in an attempt to learn more.
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11-29-2005 #10
Not if one of the A's and one of the K's give the other guy a flush.
Originally Posted by Pok 7's
I'm CDO. It's like OCD, but everying is in order just like it should be.
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