Hand #1

$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, November 19, 15:51:30 EDT 2005
Table Table 66017 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: ltd_22 ( $23.15 )
Seat 2: TheSlyOne ( $61.14 )
Seat 3: Rich05220 ( $29.38 )
Seat 4: YC888 ( $24.03 )
Seat 5: UGE628 ( $23.17 )
Seat 6: primetime2 ( $23.10 )
Seat 10: englehardt ( $15.71 )
Seat 9: hero ( $26.60 )
Seat 8: Roots05 ( $7.90 )
Seat 7: Madyard ( $5.70 )
hero posts small blind [$0.10].
englehardt posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to hero [ ]
ltd_22 calls [$0.25].
TheSlyOne calls [$0.25].
Rich05220 folds.
YC888 folds.
UGE628 folds.
primetime2 folds.
Madyard folds.
Roots05 calls [$0.25].
hero calls [$0.15].
englehardt checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ , , ]
>You have options at Table 65173 Table!.
hero checks.
englehardt checks.
ltd_22 bets [$1].
TheSlyOne folds.
Roots05 folds.
hero calls [$1].
englehardt folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ ]
hero bets [$2].
ltd_22 raises [$4].

#2

$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, November 19, 16:53:32 EDT 2005
Table Table 66315 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: bg226 ( $29.90 )
Seat 3: AbrahamYo ( $14.55 )
Seat 5: Cookie1014 ( $26.10 )
Seat 8: sf_waiter ( $42.36 )
Seat 10: Animator ( $17.25 )
Seat 9: golferpimp11 ( $19.90 )
Seat 6: hero ( $26.75 )
Seat 4: bibbi74 ( $3.40 )
Seat 7: thoungas ( $27.60 )
Seat 1: wooley999 ( $10.55 )
Animator posts small blind [$0.10].
wooley999 posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to hero [ ]
bg226 calls [$0.25].
AbrahamYo folds.
bibbi74 folds.
Cookie1014 folds.
hero calls [$0.25].
thoungas calls [$0.25].
sf_waiter folds.
golferpimp11 raises [$1.50].
Animator folds.
wooley999 folds.
bg226 folds.
hero calls [$1.25].
thoungas folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ , , ]
hero checks.
golferpimp11 checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ ]
hero bets [$3].
golferpimp11 calls [$3].
>You have options at Table 65173 Table!.
** Dealing River ** [ ]
>You have options at Table 68491 Table!.
hero

should i give up or fire again, or not done it in first place

i hate the way you played #2 from the get go, probably dump it to the raise PF oop, on the turn you took your shot, got called. he's almost definitely got you beat.

Think you should have CR'd the first hand on the flop. make a pot sized bet there. But for the action given, you need to call this bet here.

And I dunno on the second hand... Really need a Hx here....

__________________

Ugh #1 is really ugly. Leading would be ok. Check raising would be even better. The way you played it got you in an ugly spot. Call and check the river. You can call a smallish river bet.

#2 fold preflop.. twice.. I don't like either of the preflop calls. Check/fold the river with that action.

__________________
“There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what you're talking about.” - John von Neumann

thanks bros

When you guys say you have to call a river bet what's that mean? is this one of them cases

Table Table 68575 (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: hero ( $25.50)
Seat 2: Ebachle ( $26.05)
Seat 3: dmmd33 ( $16.85)
Seat 4: jasslut ( $4.75)
Seat 5: Maddog207 ( $56.30)
Seat 6: bcheez ( $15.65)
Seat 7: CTdMoney ( $25)
Seat 8: krider2313 ( $1.50)
Seat 9: m_aggie ( $28.87)
Seat 10: neills ( $29.38)
m_aggie posts small blind (0.10)
neills posts big blind (0.25)
CTdMoney posts big blind (0.25)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to hero [ , ]
hero raises (1) to 1
Ebachle folds.
dmmd33 folds.
bcheez folds.
CTdMoney calls (0.75)
krider2313 calls (1)
m_aggie calls (0.90)
neills calls (0.75)
** Dealing Flop ** : [ , , ]
m_aggie checks.
neills checks.
hero bets (3)
CTdMoney folds.
krider2313 calls (0.50)
krider2313 is all-In.
m_aggie folds.
neills calls (3)
Creating Main Pot with $6.20 with krider2313
** Dealing Turn ** : [ ]
neills checks.
hero bets (3.50)
neills raises (7) to 7
hero calls (3.50)
** Dealing River ** : [ ]
neills bets (5)

Turn was icky yea...hmm..

Results:
he had 2c3c

Man, who says you can't play garbage out of position? This would be a very tuf call what with the Kd not only an overcard to your JJ but also a flush card. I'm thinking 90+% of knowledgable poker players are going to fold this puppy on the turn after the check-raise.

As for your question about having to call on the river, I don't think this hand would qualify unless you had a good read on the opps but even then that turn card was pure poison and the river card wasn't any joy either. I also think that the general advice about calling on the river (more often) is largely applicable to Limit Hold'em where the cost is just one more BB vs the whole pot whereas in NL Hold'em it may be all-in and very/too expensive to keep johnny honest.

If you want to bet the turn, fold to a checkraise. I check behind and call a smalll bet on the river, but I suck at poker.

__________________
“There's no sense in being precise when you don't even know what you're talking about.” - John von Neumann

First hand: Don't play easily dominated crap hands out of position, particularly for top pair value. If you hit the straight draw, you can proceed, but top pair Q with the ten kicker in that field is asking for trouble.

If you just can't get away from your top pair/medium kicker, then at least raise on the flop and find out once and for all if you're beat. If you get raised or called, then answer is most likely yes, and you can let this go. Calling on the flop and waiting to see how the turn & river come out (when the bets tend to double each street) is a long term money loser. On the turn, the A comes out, time to dump the hand.

Second hand: I don't mind your call of that bet, even out of position. The raiser has declared he's got a hand he's ready to fight with, so if you flop your set you're likely to bust him. Both you and he have enough chips to get your money back (need 7 or 8:1 odds - expressed and/or implied). But when you don't flop your set, let it go at that. You're out of position, and while the A may be a scare card for him, he's already let you know with the PF raise he's ready to do battle, so even if he's got KK, QQ, JJ, TT, he's probably going the distance.

Think about it this way: if you had a 3 in your hand and a 3 on the board (for a pair of 3's), would you fight this battle the same way? I think you'd fold your bottom pair. When you don't hit your set, remember, it's just a pair of 3's, which frankly sucks donkey balls.

The recurring theme I see here is: Position, Position, Position. You need to start taking it into account when you're making these plays.